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Garland Bayley

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St. Andrews Beach closed
« on: October 11, 2007, 06:34:52 PM »
Follow the link below.

Geoff S links to this!
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Kalen Braley

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Chris Kane

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Re:St. Andrews Beach closed
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2007, 07:02:58 PM »
That article was out of date before it even went to the printers - employees returned to work only to be fired that night.  The operations of the Club have been restructured - I'm hearing of a call on members to get it going again.

Apparently the sacked staff were picketing the front gate on Wednesday.  Very unhappy with what has happened, and for good reason!

My understanding is that it will reopen this weekend, but for how long?

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:St. Andrews Beach closed
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2007, 07:20:34 PM »
Doesn'y it say they have just short of 400 members?  @ 55k each how do you run out of cash?

What did I mis-read?
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Chris Kane

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:St. Andrews Beach closed
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2007, 07:31:34 PM »
Adam, I'm reluctant to answer your question as I might not have my facts absolutely straight, but they certainly don't have 400 members who have paid $55k each (ie $22m).  

Many have been sold at a discount (for example one member told me that they sold a hundred for $20k to existing members), plus many of the shares were sold on a payment plan - part of the cost upfront, then in installments as key milestones in the project were achieved.  As none of the milestones (completing the Fingal course, opening the Fingal course, opening the clubhouse) have been achieved, they don't have the full $55k yet.

What I'm certain of is that they haven't made anything like $22m from membership sales.

Mark_F

Re:St. Andrews Beach closed
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2007, 10:23:05 PM »
Adam,

Last I heard, there were 384 shares sold.

Approximately 110 of these were renounceable shares sold to members for $20,000, who then onsold them to friends etc.

A number of shares have also been given to suppliers etc in lieu of payment.

Chris mentioned the payment plan for shares, but I don't think many were sold that way.

By my very rough calculations, GCPL should have banked around $13 million plus in share sales, which is a long way from $22 million.

However, considering they still have a mortgage on land which only cost around $3-4 million, and that the Gunnamatta only cost around $4million to construct -and which a significant portion of that budget is still owed to suppliers, contractors and designers - it is difficult to see exactly where the money has been going.

The fact that the directors reward themselves most handsomely for their incompetence would be a reasonably large part of the equation I am sure.

Chris,

You are correct.  They plan to levy members - but perhaps not shareholders, as I read it - $600 to ensure the club's obligations in respect to operations and maintainence.

It is probably a once-off charge.  I have absolutely no doubt that GCPL will cease to exist before the end of the year, and that St Andrews Beach would have been sold by then.

The course is open, using staff from the Bass Coast Resort. Apparently it will take 6-8 weeks to get it back to normal.

Ben Cowan-Dewar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:St. Andrews Beach closed
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2007, 10:59:20 PM »
Mark,
When I was there in 04, just as it was opening, things seemed promising.

Given the apparent success of National, what do you think led to the problems at SAB? Was it the saturation of golf, distance to Melbourne, cost?

Mark_F

Re:St. Andrews Beach closed
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2007, 11:51:10 PM »
Ben,

Yes, 2004 was indeed promising.  All seems so far away now...

I think the problems at St Andrews Beach are basically due to the business model of the development, although the other issues you mention play possibly a small role too.

GCPL managed to sell around 200 shares by the time I joined in July 2004, but these were held by only 110 or so actual members.

The first time I saw the property I was stunned -I couldn't get back to my bank in Melbourne quick enough to write a cheque, knowing that the land was in the hands of Doak and Clayton.

I think most of these 110 members, like me, allowed their heart to rule their head, for when looked at closely, there are serious credibility issues with the project overall, and everyone else in Melbourne - especially those already members of clubs and much more 'in the know' in regards to the costs involved - looked at it with their brain, and didn't like what they saw.

Namely:
- The actual prospectus itself is very ambiguous in many instances,  and casts doubt upon the project, if not the credibility of those behind it, immediately. For instance, it states at the beginning of mine that the construction of two courses and the clubhouse is not dependent upon sales of shares. Yet later in the document, it states that only the Gunnamatta and clubhouse are guaranteed to be built regardless of share sales.

- The fact that the clubhouse was not dependent upon share sales, but has yet to materialize.

- The $50,000 no fees share relied upon what many people saw as an optimistic number of rounds (25,000) on an as yet unbuilt second course, with an unbuilt hotel thrown into the mix too.

-GCPL only guaranteed to pay for maintainance until January 1st 2010, which means that the second course and hotel had to be underway by mid 2006 in order to be constructed in enough time to build up business. Once this didn't happen, even more doubt crept in about the viability as a whole of the development, thus creating a vicious circle where no one would buy shares, which meant that things weren't being built etc,etc.

-The figures GCPL used as to what it would cost to maintain and administer both courses - $1.5-1.6 million a year - appears to be wildly optimistic.

-The property for sale in the development, crucial to financing much of the infrastructure, is leasehold only. Whilst this may be a reasonably common method of obtaining property in London, it isn't here, and there is also the knowledge that the Duke of Westminster and his progeny will exist in the future, unlike an unlisted private company.

- The constant changes in the offerings to potential shareholders lent an unneeded air of desperation and panic to the project.

Some people speculate that because you are buying a share that is also a leasehold only, as opposed to an actual share in the property, as with The National, this is a significant reason for the lack of success at St AB, but I am not convinced by this argument.

The Heritage on the far outer Eastern suburbs of Melbourne, with a very similar structure to StAB - two courses, hotel, some property - has leasehold shares, and they have sold over a 1000.  And for something around $35,000 I think, with annual subs to boot. Similarly, Sandhurst, on the fringes of the Peninsula.

There is possibily something to the saturation of golf, tied in with the distance.  The Mornington Peninsula has seen a number of developments in recent years, several with public access, and in an increasingly time poor world, it may be true that the size of the market willing to spend so much for something over an hour away, isn't what the directors thought.

However, it must be rememebered that for all of the polish and security of The National, it too struggled in its very early days, and I am pretty sure it more than once came close to going under.

PS. The directors would no doubt say all of the above is bollocks.  :-\

Brett Morris

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:St. Andrews Beach closed
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2007, 04:57:32 AM »
This came out this afternoon from the Australian Golf Course Superintendents Association.

A real shame.

----------

St Andrews Beach Maintenance Workers Sacked.

A fortnight ago, the AGCSA’s weekly email newsletter, The Cut, highlighted the plight of maintenance workers at The Golf Club, St Andrews Beach who had stopped work in late September in protest of unpaid wages and entitlements.

The situation at the Mornington Peninsula course intensified earlier this week when all 11 maintenance staff, including superintendent John Geary, were laid off by management and the following day staff from a subsidiary company brought in to maintain the course.

Geary and his fellow staff members met with the Australian Workers Union yesterday to discuss further action against owners Golf Club Properties Ltd and have organised a rally outside the gates of St Andrews Beach between 9.30am-10.30am tomorrow (Saturday 13 October).

When The Cut contacted Geary he was in the process of calling other superintendents around the Mornington Peninsula and was hopeful they and their staff would come along and support their fellow industry colleagues in raising awareness of the “ugly” situation that had developed at the golf club.

“It’s unfortunate that it has got this stage and there are a few chapters still to be written yet,” Geary told The Cut. “I would like to make a special mention to all those from within the turf industry who have called me over the past week. I have had a stack of calls from fellow Superintendents wishing me and the staff here all the best.  

“It’s great to know that we have their support and hopefully this will show that these company directors really need to be held responsible for their actions and that this sort of behaviour is unacceptable.”

St Andrews Beach maintenance staff downed tools on Thursday 20 September and refused to undertake further work to the Gunnamatta Course until they were paid wages and superannuation entitlements owed to them by GC Operations P/L, a subsidiary company of Golf Club Properties Ltd.

In some cases workers hadn’t been paid for up to six weeks and no superannuation entitlements had been made for 2007. During this period employees had been seeking assurances with the owners for the payment of these outstanding entitlements without success.

Part payment of wages and salaries was forthcoming on Friday 5 October, but workers refused to return to work until the remainder of monies owed were paid. That occurred on Monday and maintenance staff agreed to return to work on Tuesday 9 October on the proviso that their superannuation entitlements would be paid by the end of the week.

No sooner had they resumed maintenance operations than company directors visited the maintenance facility that afternoon informing them that GC Operations had ceased trading and that there was no longer work available.

The next day (Wednesday), staff from another of Golf Club Properties’ subsidiary companies were brought in to undertake routine maintenance operations at St Andrews Beach.

“We have been running maintenance operations on a shoestring for a long time and the course was actually looking pretty good considering the limitations,” says Geary. “We haven’t been sacked for a lack of performance; rather we’ve got the sack for standing up for ourselves and asking where our wages and entitlements are.”

The Cut was unable to obtain comment from Golf Club Properties Ltd before deadline.

Justin Ryan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:St. Andrews Beach closed
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2007, 06:51:37 PM »
If nothing else the effort by John Geary and his staff shows just how well you can present a course on a small budget.  There is probably a case study in it, and clubs all over the sandbelt, with big budgets and regularly poor playing conditions should be rushing down to the picket line to give these blokes jobs.

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:St. Andrews Beach closed
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2007, 07:49:19 PM »
Gentlemen, Thank you for your comprehensive responses.
 It's a shame such a situation could occur. I feel your pain and will hope and pray for the best.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:St. Andrews Beach closed
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2007, 11:17:12 PM »
Justin:

Amen to what you said above.  From all accounts they were doing a terrific job down there with a very modest maintenance budget.

I've stayed out of the threads about St. Andrews Beach because I really have no inside knowledge of what's going on -- I haven't heard a thing directly from the ownership in 18 months, and even if I did, I would be inclined not to believe them at this point.

I don't think the golf course will go away.  It'll be sold or auctioned off eventually and we will be glad to go back and fix it up.

Mark_F

Re:St. Andrews Beach closed
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2007, 03:26:56 AM »
...clubs all over the sandbelt, with big budgets and regularly poor playing conditions should be rushing down to the picket line to give these blokes jobs.

Don't say that.  They will still be much needed, and wanted, in a few weeks after St Andrews Beach is sold and the current staff move back to Bass Coast.

Shane Gurnett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:St. Andrews Beach closed
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2007, 06:25:21 AM »
...clubs all over the sandbelt, with big budgets and regularly poor playing conditions should be rushing down to the picket line to give these blokes jobs.

Don't say that.  They will still be much needed, and wanted, in a few weeks after St Andrews Beach is sold and the current staff move back to Bass Coast.

Mark,

If the business model has been proven to be flawed, why would you expect any new owner to persevere with the membership structure in place now? How could any new owner expect to derive an acceptable return on their investment if they have the existing members still in there not contributing a dollar to the bottom line?

Shane

Mark_F

Re:St. Andrews Beach closed
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2007, 05:53:57 AM »
Shane,

I am not quite sure what you mean.

I don't  know that I do expect any new owner to persist with the no fee structure, but that all depends on what it is sold for, doesn't it?

I imagine if it is sold to another rapacious property developer with dollar signs for eyes, intent on building both the resort and the apartments, then the current structure definitely won't be sustainable, but then I very much doubt any developer could ever get a return on their investment if that was the plan, since the purchase price will be too high.

I believe it will be sold to be developed purely as a golf club, without the resort or property. You are the property expert here - do you think there is a market for 100 leasehold apartments down there? If so, at what price?

Whoever buys the place is going to have to sell memberships to finance further construction as well as the purchase price.  If they don't honour the memberships currently in place, why would anyone else purchase one, since the same could happen to them?

Ergo, the current memberships are contributing to the bottom line.  It's called goodwill, which of course those repugnant accountants are unable to quantify.

Matthew Mollica

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:St. Andrews Beach closed
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2007, 07:58:13 AM »
Mark,

Say there is a white knight (individual or organisation) which proceeds to buy the asset (existing course, adjoining land, and plans for further development, including property construction).

Is there any chance that the current paid up shareholders would, as a collective of singular mind, approach the new owner, and ask that they continue as members there, on the proviso that there is an annual sub payable?

I know that goes against the grain for those who have purchased what they thought was a share enabling free golf for their lifetime, but it may be the best of a bad situation?

The group of members, and the eventual new owner, need to get along, for all concerned. The course needs at least 250 annual subs to be maintained as you'd like. I know John did it on approx 55K a year, but that's not going to be a long-term solution. Especially without a clubhouse, and small numbers of rounds played thus far.

I am assuming in all this, that some entity will purchase the entire parcel, and maintain the golf course. I'm sure I speak for all here saying that St A Beach is too good for NLE status. Besides, Doak is too young for that sort of thing!

Matthew
"The truth about golf courses has a slightly different expression for every golfer. Which of them, one might ask, is without the most definitive convictions concerning the merits or deficiencies of the links he plays over? Freedom of criticism is one of the last privileges he is likely to forgo."

Danny Goss

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:St. Andrews Beach closed
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2007, 06:28:40 PM »
Mark,

I saw this in The Age today which seems to suggest that some moves are afoot. Where this leads - who knows.

The Age]http://www.theage.com.au/news/business/golf-club-workers-rescued-from-the-rough/2007/10/15/1192300685490.html]The Age


Chris Kane

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:St. Andrews Beach closed
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2007, 07:08:19 PM »
Mark, I am no expert, but I think its far more likely that the it would be sold as a course/property rather than as a club.  Why would anyone buy something with 400 members who aren't going to contribute any capital?

Mark_F

Re:St. Andrews Beach closed
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2007, 08:25:54 PM »

Is there any chance that the current paid up shareholders would, as a collective of singular mind, approach the new owner, and ask that they continue as members there, on the proviso that there is an annual sub payable?

Matt,

This is assuming, of course, that honouring the shares already sold isn't part of the deal anyway. I am sure the directors aren't brave/foolish enough to do that.

Have you tried to purchase a baseball bat at Rebel Sports the last few days? :)

Danny,

Great link.

Thanks.

Chris,

As I have intimated elsewhere, whomever purchases the property is going to have to sell shares to get some return and/or further capital.

If they don't honour shares already sold, then I can't possibly imagine anyone else investing with the new owners.

Chris Kane

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:St. Andrews Beach closed
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2007, 08:35:29 PM »
As I have intimated elsewhere, whomever purchases the property is going to have to sell shares to get some return and/or further capital.

If they don't honour shares already sold, then I can't possibly imagine anyone else investing with the new owners.

Well for your sake I hope you're right.  I'd consider you lucky if you get anything[/] when the place is sold or goes bust.

Mark_F

Re:St. Andrews Beach closed
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2007, 08:42:42 PM »
I suppose there are also two other possibilities.

One, GCPL manage to find someone who can inject some moey into the project in return for a percent of the gross, and two, GCPL reorganise the whole project, forget about the eco resort, and just build it as a golf club/property development, turning over the freehold to the golf club so potential investors would be more secure with their purchase.

Danny Goss

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:St. Andrews Beach closed
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2007, 08:43:27 PM »
Mark,

I wonder if this is some sort of "inside" deal as it seems Leggo has a stake in GCPL and this may be only a "loan" so that the project can generate some positive publicity. It may be enough to pay a few bills but the same guys are still "driving the bus" which still suggests that not much has changed.

StAB needs a lot more than this to resuscitate it.

Mark_F

Re:St. Andrews Beach closed
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2007, 08:48:20 PM »
Danny,

I think you are probably correct, as I don't recall Leggo being a prior investor in GCPL.

Be interested to know if he was the first port of call, or the directors went to him after being knocked back by other financial institutions, who didn't like the speed the bus drivers were heading for the cliff at.

Justin Ryan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:St. Andrews Beach closed
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2007, 08:55:59 PM »
As I have intimated elsewhere, whomever purchases the property is going to have to sell shares to get some return and/or further capital.

If they don't honour shares already sold, then I can't possibly imagine anyone else investing with the new owners.
I cannot imagine the next owners would be relying on a model that would involve the sale of shares.  I would have thought a likely scenario is that someone picks it up cheap and runs it as a public course, a la Duncan Andrews at Limestone Valley/The Dunes.

Mark_F

Re:St. Andrews Beach closed
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2007, 09:01:33 PM »
I cannot imagine the next owners would be relying on a model that would involve the sale of shares.  I would have thought a likely scenario is that someone picks it up cheap and runs it as a public course, a la Duncan Andrews at Limestone Valley/The Dunes.

Did you actually put any thought at all into the above sentences, Justin?

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