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Roger Tufts

Turning Stone Resort
« on: October 10, 2007, 02:21:23 AM »
Being in the upstate New York area at school, me and a couple friends were pondering heading up to Turning Stone Resort in the Syracuse area before the end of golf season.

Was wondering if you guys have any knowledge or input of any of the five courses there, outside of the "Oh i saw that course on TV!!!" when they played the PGA event at the Atunyote course.

The five courses are:

Atunyote - Tom Fazio (PGA Event Course) -$200
Kaluhyat - Robert Trent Jones Jr. - $125
Shenendoah - Rick Smith - $125
*Pleasant Knolls - ?? - $15
*Sandstone Hollow - Rick Smith - $20

*Note that the last 2 are each 9 hole courses.

All I've seen of this is pictures, and from just that at least the three eighteen hole courses look worthwhile... any of you guys played/heard about them?? Atunyote is expensive- is it worth it? Any Input would be welcome, sorry if I've missed a thread about this in the past.

EDIT: Added rates for courses, for anyone who has played them, to tell if they are worth it, haha.


On a side note, I was at Syracuse airport on the Sunday of the Turning Stone Championship. I walked through security hearing two airport security workers whispering "Isn't that one of the golfers?" I turned around to see Lee Janzen (He had fired +3 for the championship and was on his way out of there WELL before it ended). I shook his hand and went on my way, but it was cool.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2007, 02:29:17 AM by Roger Tufts »
Cornell University '11 - Tedesco Country Club - Next Golf Vacation: Summer 2015 @ Nova Scotia & PEI (14 Rounds)

Scott Witter

Re:Turning Stone Resort
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2007, 08:13:22 AM »
Roger:

The original Rick Smith links inspired course is overcooked with extensive shaping to create something from nothing, but still there are plenty who love this sort of thing...not much strategic thinking IMO, huge benign putting surfaces with lots of room for 3 putts.  The Jones Jr. course...well is a Jones course, you get what you get as well as the Fazio layout where the tournament is played is another Fazio print.  Both are extensively cared for with over-the-top 'green' conditions.  I am not prepared to rate them based on MO other than to say they are standard Jones and Fazio work and if you like this style and look, then by all means you will probably enjoy playing them.  Also, as are most in this group, they are way over priced, but you may catch an 'off-season' rate now.

Dan Boerger

Re:Turning Stone Resort
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2007, 09:26:20 AM »
Nice resort and certainly a convenient place to play golf on a well groomed track if you're staying there. But, if you desire a more unique experience on some very fine courses in central New York, I would consider:

Teugega (sp?) near Rome, great Donald Ross track
Seven Oaks (Colgate University course)
Leatherstocking (Cooperstown, but us locals often referred to it as Otesaga)
"Man should practice moderation in all things, including moderation."  Mark Twain

John Foley

Re:Turning Stone Resort
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2007, 10:40:02 AM »
Dan,

I'll concur w/ Scott for the most part. The prices are way overboardf for what you get. The only discounts I know of are the Golf Calendar sold in Dick's & Golf Galaxy here in UNY which has reduced green fee's for the Jones & Smith course.

The Fazio course was great conditioning and a nice experiance, big course, limited play, but as for the strategic value it was very very limited.

The Jones course had a few nice holes, but some that we're very questionable. It went from open to tvery tight w/ no real good flow in the design.

The Smith course is the best of the three though not w/out flaws.

If you are in Syracuse and looking for a place to go and find some good golf Dan's list is very good. I'd also add Links @ Hiawatha Landing west of Binghamton has the best deal in Central NY.

Integrity in the moment of choice

Doug Wright

Re:Turning Stone Resort
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2007, 10:49:23 AM »
Roger,

If you're a student with a typical student's bank account there's no way I'd suggest shelling out that kind of $$ to play the Turning Stone courses, even with half off discounts.

Dan's suggestions are right on, though Teugega is private. If you're in Ithaca just go over to RTJ's Cornell University course. I think it's pretty darn good right up to the last hole, which is a dog (they shortened it for safety reasons). Also, head down to Elmira and play Mark Twain municipal ($22!) and Soaring Eagles in nearby Horseheads, which has some wild greens. Or head up to Rochester. There are  a number of decent courses there.
Twitter: @Deneuchre

Jay Flemma

Re:Turning Stone Resort
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2007, 10:55:16 AM »
ABSOLUTELY NOT.  You will waste your money and have your intelligence insulted.  Here are some links to the grisly shuck they perpetrate on a daily basis.

Go play Hiawatha Landing or Conklin or Greystone instead.

http://www.golfobserver.com/features/Flemma/FlemmaTurningstone_092507.php

http://jayflemma.thegolfspace.com/?p=460

http://jayflemma.thegolfspace.com/?p=139

You will waste your money.  $225 for a waterfall a stained glass window and "oh no!  we would never have a cross hazard!"

From my article:

The PGA Tour, as stewards of the game, have a duty to protect the good and welfare of golf by choosing worthy venues; venues free from the cloud of gambling and tax disputes, venues that promote excellent golf course architecture and venues that are respectful of the storied history, reputation and goodwill of sister courses. People rightfully should be furious when they see ads for a golf resort and find out they are coming instead to a gambling ranch…albeit one with a "world-class" spa facility for those tough days at the one-arm bandit. The difference between revealing this fact and concealing it, is - as author J.K. Rowling put it - the difference between truth and lies, courage and cowardice.

Worse still, promoting casinos promotes the misery of the golf populus at the expense of the most simoniacal people. The residents must pay taxes but, to paraphrase Mark Twain, these hapless people work so Atunyote may grow fat off them, drink misery to the dregs so Atunyote may wallow in cash, pay so that Atunyote can avoid taxes, and bow in adulation and genuflect so Atunyote may think itself a god of this world.

There is also a cultural dichotomy at work as well. The vast majority of golfers are not about foie gras and champagne, but bacon and egg sandwiches and a nip of scotch to keep warm. Golf is not about creature comforts, but comfortable playing partners. It’s not about taking your own Cessna to the course landing strip, but driving over dirt roads and finding the unobtrusive entrance and immersing yourself in the most important aspect of a great club - a great strategic course design which recreates the conditions of the best UK and Irish clubs.

Atunyote’s supporters pray to all the false idols of golf design, expense, a big-name architect and length/difficulty. The result was a long, but overly wide strategy-light, overpriced gaudy arcade of a golf course that summarizes all the design mistakes of the 80's and early 90's and boasts a price of $200 that is completely unjustifiable. In short, waterfalls, stained glass windows in the clubhouse, a private club gate and "Augusta White sand" in the bunkers are the drawing points according to the media relations team. It’s a kaleidoscopic whirligig of meaningless trash like waterfalls, but three scoops of unflavored yogurt for hole shapes and greens. They’ll try anything to distract you form the fact that the course isn’t worth half the fee it charges.

But worst of all, no matter how the Tour seeks to divest itself on paper and TV from the gambling and the tax mess, the firestorm of controversy surrounding the casino burns like a proprietary torch over the tournament and no amount of paper shuffling, name changing and charitable contribution change the fact that Turning Stone is the reddest of the Tour’s red light districts. In this case, when you ask yourself the question, "what are they trying to sell me?", simply remember Kurt Vonnegut’s admonition that "what sometimes passes for culture is often really just a commercial."

Roger Tufts

Re:Turning Stone Resort
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2007, 04:19:49 PM »
If you're in Ithaca just go over to RTJ's Cornell University course. I think it's pretty darn good right up to the last hole, which is a dog (they shortened it for safety reasons).

Well I have a fall season pass at the RTJ course and have played it over many times actually, but being from golf-rich North Shore of Boston, i naturally want to get around to see what else is around here! haha

About #18... its still 420 from the back tees... they had it pushed back even further? For who's safety was it changed? I guess pushing it back would endanger those on the 17th green, but screw that if they did it for people across the road....

Another note on that, I've already started taking fall foliage pics for my eventual "My Home Course" write up ;)

Thanks for all the input, i had kinda figured they were very, very high prices, but I'm also liking the other suggestions for places to play around here.

Keep it coming :)

Hoping to get to Leatherstocking soon... Brad played there just this passed week and enjoyed it.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2007, 04:21:07 PM by Roger Tufts »
Cornell University '11 - Tedesco Country Club - Next Golf Vacation: Summer 2015 @ Nova Scotia & PEI (14 Rounds)

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