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Scratch_Nathan

Re: Which courses are the most overrated in the U.
« Reply #100 on: August 14, 2002, 03:01:33 PM »

ChrisB -

Thanks for the warning.  I guess sometimes you can voice your opinion and spend the rest of the day defending and attacking.  Opinions are like PVs #10 bunker...everybody's got one.  See the end of this strand.  Toast it is.

SN


« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Patrick Mucci

Re: Which courses are the most overrated in the U.
« Reply #101 on: August 15, 2002, 11:08:12 AM »
Scratch Nathan,

I've never held superior conditioning against a course.

Superior conditioning is an asset not a debit.

Amongst the many things I find wrong with Spanish Bay,
You may have missed an earlier post of mine regarding the blind par 3 with water left, right and front, with only the top of the  pin visible to the golfer on the tee, providing no indication of the play of the hole, and an excessive penalty for GUESSING wrong.  I understand that situation has been corrected, but it was a design flaw.

Spanish Bay sits upon one of the greatest pieces of land, for a  golf course site, in the world, Pacific Ocean to the west, forests to the east.
 
It clearly represents, to me, a wonderful opportunity lost.  

Some of the negatives you have already mentioned, and, those are serious negatives.

Just think of the potential results had the hotel been moved further east, allowing the entire golf course to be a seaside course, with open vistas of the entire course and the Pacific.

To me, Spanish Bay was certainly a grand disappointment, given what might have been.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Which courses are the most overrated in the U.S.?
« Reply #102 on: April 26, 2005, 04:37:49 PM »
bump...

A good old thread.  Wondering if anybody has opinions today for this 2002 thread.
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danielfaleman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Which courses are the most overrated in the U.S.?
« Reply #103 on: April 26, 2005, 05:23:37 PM »
I can't stand "superior conditioning", if I don't see brown spots, I'm disappointed.

Over-rated:

1) ANGC - #4: Puleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease!

2) Torrey Pines South.

3) Pebble Beach - as said above, front-nine yawner; AND CART PATHS!!

4) Muirfield Village.



« Last Edit: April 26, 2005, 08:40:28 PM by danielfaleman »
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Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Which courses are the most overrated in the U.S.?
« Reply #104 on: April 26, 2005, 05:44:32 PM »
I have just read Pat Mucci's Post No 103 re Spanish Bay.  For a moment I thought he was plagiarizing one of my earlier posts on the subject. His comments are a carbon copy of those that I have expressed for years, about the opportunity that was lost by the rapaciousness of one Marvin Davis.

To think that you have a resort course and nowhere to practice. I daresay that the condos were a decided money maker but oh, what could have been.  
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DMoriarty

Re:Which courses are the most overrated in the U.S.?
« Reply #105 on: April 26, 2005, 05:49:02 PM »
Torrey Pines South is now much more overrated than it was in 2002.  
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Voytek Wilczak

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Which courses are the most overrated in the U.S.?
« Reply #106 on: April 26, 2005, 07:57:50 PM »
To me, it is Pebble Beach, by far.

It did nothing for me. Well, not much, anyway.

Ocean holes are nice, but the front nine is ho-hum, many houses on the course are just plain bad architecture, and bothered me greatly.

Ballybunion, Pine Valley, Shinnecock to me are awe-inspiring creations, while Pebble is just a nice resort course. Newbie's humble opinion.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2005, 08:00:02 PM by Voytek Wilczak »
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Jonathan Cummings

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Which courses are the most overrated in the U.S.?
« Reply #107 on: April 26, 2005, 08:19:17 PM »
Agreed.

Pebble is #1 over-rated course.  IMPersonalO here are some others...

Spanish Bay - surfing along on the big waves of its neighbors

Yeaman's Hall - YH is a Camargo, Fishers, CGC light.  I thought alot of Yeaman's until I saw the others.  The front at Yeaman's borders on being ordinary

Whistling Straits - sorry Paul, I found the place consumed with trying to be difficult

Sahalee - squeaks in for top 10 in state of Washington.  Doak's effort will probably stomp all over it.

Crystal Downs - a great course that's a little too great

CC at Monticedo - sorry Tommy, same thing goes with CCofM as with Crystal Downs

Sometimes underrated great courses - Pine Tree, Merion (a 10 - period), Lasonia (captures an essence of golf like few other places), Pine Needles (longer, this would be as good as #2).

Deep Sleeper underrated course - Bluffs at Thompson Creek (impossible not to leave the place with a glow and lasting memory)

There are others....

jaycee  
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JakaB

Re:Which courses are the most overrated in the U.S.?
« Reply #108 on: April 26, 2005, 08:53:32 PM »
Eckstein,

There are some doozies in Jaycee's list...but what exactly set you off.   I went back and read all 86 of your previous posts and you have some interesting takes.  I'm guessing the Yeaman Hall comment got your goat.
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Jonathan Cummings

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Which courses are the most overrated in the U.S.?
« Reply #109 on: April 26, 2005, 08:55:56 PM »
 :)  There's white smoke rising...  I've been annointed!
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Jonathan Cummings

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Which courses are the most overrated in the U.S.?
« Reply #110 on: April 26, 2005, 09:16:48 PM »
If only I smoked....
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PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Which courses are the most overrated in the U.S.?
« Reply #111 on: April 26, 2005, 09:29:33 PM »
Troon with all those d***ed houses >:(
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199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Which courses are the most overrated in the U.S.?
« Reply #112 on: April 26, 2005, 10:08:54 PM »
Which courses are the most overrated in the U.S.?????



According to the last 'list' I read, here's the most overrated:

21. Victoria National
43. Flint Hills National
45. Rich Harvest Links
52. Sand Ridge
54. The Quarry at La Quinta
65. Dallas National
84. Trump International
94. Old Waverly


These are in order according to the list.

I believe Victoria National should be on this list (you're welcome, JakaB), however, at #21 it's a tad too high.

The rest??????

 ??? ??? ::) :P :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Which courses are the most overrated in the U.S.?
« Reply #113 on: April 26, 2005, 10:11:40 PM »
BTW, I will stick with my assessment of the Links at Spanish Bay.

Ugh.

 :P :P :P :P :P
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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Which courses are the most overrated in the U.S.?
« Reply #114 on: April 26, 2005, 10:24:09 PM »
The list I submitted a couple replies above, I'd like to call my "Head-Scratchers List":

According to the last 'list' I read, here's the most overrated:

21. Victoria National
43. Flint Hills National
45. Rich Harvest Links
52. Sand Ridge
54. The Quarry at La Quinta
65. Dallas National
84. Trump International
94. Old Waverly




 ??? ??? ??? ???
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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Which courses are the most overrated in the U.S.?
« Reply #115 on: April 26, 2005, 10:26:46 PM »
>BTW, I will stick with my assessment of the Links at Spanish Bay.

>Ugh.


Actually, I am quite proud of myself at how steadfast and solid I have remained in my assessment here, despite the fact that my original assessment was posted some three years ago!


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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

A_Clay_Man

Re:Which courses are the most overrated in the U.S.?
« Reply #116 on: April 26, 2005, 10:37:55 PM »
Paul= I understand Barney hunting is in full season, but I can't reconcile how you put Dubbsdread into your top twenty modern, and then think VN is overated at 21.

Fazio did spend some considerable effort on some of his designs and I think it shows VN is one of them.

Tree issues alone put Dubbsdread way down the list and all the par 3's at VN are world class.
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Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Which courses are the most overrated in the U.S.?
« Reply #117 on: April 26, 2005, 10:43:00 PM »
Adam

It's very simple.

You have the lists mixed up.

Dubs is in my top 20 modern, as you say.

Victoria National, at #21 on GD's list, is too high.

Gotta compare apples-to-apples, so to speak.

 ;)
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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Which courses are the most overrated in the U.S.?
« Reply #118 on: April 26, 2005, 10:44:07 PM »
Adam

>Fazio did spend some considerable effort on some of his designs and I think it shows VN is one of them.


Agreed.


VN is his best effort from that list, by far.

 ;)
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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

JakaB

Re:Which courses are the most overrated in the U.S.?
« Reply #119 on: April 26, 2005, 10:59:50 PM »
Paul,

Who really cares what you think of the Golf Digest list...lets have some real fun and tell us what is wrong with the Golfweek lists.
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Gerry B

Re:Which courses are the most overrated in the U.S.?
« Reply #120 on: April 26, 2005, 11:18:45 PM »
US - a certain course in springfield, nj (lower)
ROW excluding Europe / UK - a certain course in melbourne, australia - something Heath
UK / Europe - a certain course near London, England - its name  begins with a "W" and the last five letters are W-O-R-T-H

OK I said it!
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Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Which courses are the most overrated in the U.S.?
« Reply #121 on: April 26, 2005, 11:19:27 PM »
John

I think we went through this when that list came out.

For instance, I mentioned that Kapalua Plantation was too low on the list.  It should be in the 10-20 range, not at 54.

However, we've had all our fun with that list.

Now let's continue to concentrate on the 'latest' and 'greatest' and 'been-around-the-longest' list.

That is, until the Golf Magazine list comes out.

 ;) ;) :)
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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Which courses are the most overrated in the U.S.?
« Reply #122 on: April 26, 2005, 11:21:04 PM »
And, boy, John, I just KNEW I'd call you out when I said Victoria National was too high at #21 in the country!

Like clock-work.

 ;)
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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

JakaB

Re:Which courses are the most overrated in the U.S.?
« Reply #123 on: April 26, 2005, 11:26:09 PM »
What do you want me to do...Jump up and down and insist that there are only 20 courses in the country better than Victoria National....now wouldn't that be silly.   When you get that high and people start throwing stones all you can do is lay back and enjoy it..
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Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Which courses are the most overrated in the U.S.?
« Reply #124 on: April 26, 2005, 11:39:48 PM »
>lay back and enjoy it..



Sounds like Bobby Knight.

 ;)




Enjoy.

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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG
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