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gopher

Which courses are the most overrated in the U.S.?
« on: August 03, 2002, 12:33:35 PM »
I will be golfing at Bay Hill in Florida in a couple weeks.  This will be my first time to Florida let alone golfing at Bay Hill.  I always invisioned Bay Hill to one of the best courses in the U.S., but lately while talking with two guys who have played Bay Hill, they have informed me that the course is overrated.  I want to know what Bay Hill is really about from people who have golfed it, and what courses are the most overrated in the U.S.
Thanks
          Gopher
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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DriverKing

Re: Which courses are the most overrated in the U.
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2002, 06:04:53 PM »
I've played Bay Hill.  I think it's a great golf course.  But I think I also understand why your buds would say it's overrated.  I'm guessing Bay Hill to be around 20 years old.  It's not as sexy to look at, or as dramatic as a newer course with all the marsh carries, 200 yard bunkers, and mounds all over the place.  While standing on a tee you're never blown away by the looks of a hole,  However, at the end of the round you realize you had to think through each shot and probably used every club in your bag.

Most overrated courses - I generally like all courses and overrated has a negative tone, but the one I felt I paid too much for, coincidently is down the road from Bay Hill, Grand Cypress.  Just my opinion.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Which courses are the most overrated in the U.
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2002, 06:44:33 PM »
The single-most overrated course I have ever encountered in the United States is the Links at Spanish Bay.

I have written (somewhat at length!) in the past, but, to
summarize, it is marketed as a links course.  It is anything but!

It is as green and wet and lush as any American course, and
nothing like a "real" Scottish links.

And, the most annoying part is all of that in-course out-of-bounds - aka "environmental areas," many of which are practically in-play! :'(
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Jay Foreman

Re: Which courses are the most overrated in the U.
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2002, 07:10:03 PM »
Torrey Pines South is the most overrated course in the world. Nice views, but the course is not US Open material. It is just way too bland to be acceptable for the US Open. and the non-county prices are ridiculous for a municipal golf course!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Jeremy_Glenn.

Re: Which courses are the most overrated in the U.
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2002, 07:13:07 PM »
Augusta National.  Would anybody give this course the time of day if it wasn't for a certain tournament held there in the spring?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Rick_Arnett

Re: Which courses are the most overrated in the U.
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2002, 07:34:48 PM »
Any public course that charges a C-note to play. You're either public or private. That includes Pebble at $300+. Put the front nine anywhere else and its a low-priced muni at best. But Spyglass is worth the extra dinero.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Which courses are the most overrated in the U.
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2002, 07:59:09 PM »
TWENTY YEARS OLD??  Not quite.

I guess you're half right.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Patrick_Mucci

Re: Which courses are the most overrated in the U.
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2002, 08:06:51 PM »
Paul Richards,

I couldn't agree with you more, what a disappointment !

Jeremy Glenn,

Are you out of your mind ?

Have you ever played Augusta National ?

Augusta National is a terrific golf course, today, yesterday, five years ago, ten, twenty, thirty and 55 years ago.

The underlying architecture endures despite cosmetic changes to the golf course.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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mike_beene

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Which courses are the most overrated in the U.
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2002, 08:54:47 PM »
Rick,I need to find some of these low priced muni's.I do think it's tough to blend in inland holes on a nonlinks seaside(see also Teeth of the Dog).You end up with an almost parkland-seaside mix.Most of the average holes at Pebble are on the back.I love Pebble.It's only overated when its put in top 20 in world.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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mike_beene

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Which courses are the most overrated in the U.
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2002, 08:56:44 PM »
In Texas,Colonial.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Which courses are the most overrated in the U.
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2002, 09:11:17 PM »
Caves Valley,(Along with many other Fazio's) and Atlantic Golf Club
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:08 PM by -1 »
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Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Brad Klein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Which courses are the most overrated in the U.
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2002, 09:46:12 PM »
Caves Valley? Doesn't a golf course have to be rated to be overrated?

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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TEPaul

Re: Which courses are the most overrated in the U.
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2002, 10:02:53 PM »
Pat Mucci:

When you make a remark like that about ANGC maybe you should try to define what you mean by "cosmetic". Most of us, including you, could tell that Heidi Klum has a real pretty face if she doesn't have a mask on it! Or are you only thinking about her body?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Patrick_Mucci

Re: Which courses are the most overrated in the U.
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2002, 10:20:18 PM »
TEPaul,

I've played Augusta, and don't share Jeremy's view, that the course is architectually unworthy, save for the Masters, which in his mind gives it its sole architectural credibility.

Cosmetic change is adding length, expanding bunker size, relocating a bunker to keep it in play, narrowing fairways to tolerable widths, changing a bunker line from scraggly to crisp.

The golf course is architectually worthy, and I would ask anyone who has played it, who disagrees to elaborate on its architectural weaknesses on a hole by hole basis.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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John_D._Bernhardt

Re: Which courses are the most overrated in the U.
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2002, 10:26:40 PM »
Let pat alone here. he left the Torrey south observation alone which is good and gave augusta national a thumb's up. I am oh so pleased.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Patrick_Mucci

Re: Which courses are the most overrated in the U.
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2002, 10:29:04 PM »
John Bernhardt,

I'm one of the few guys who know who the Chinese Bandits were !
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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TEPaul

Re: Which courses are the most overrated in the U.
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2002, 10:46:30 PM »
John D. Bernhardt:

On architectural matters, I try to keep and open mind and I try to be flexible,

but,

"let Pat alone"??

Now, you are asking for the impossible!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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A_Clay_Man

Re: Which courses are the most overrated in the U.
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2002, 06:58:53 AM »
After reading some of the comments above...

Overated, underated, who's to say?

 Your own personal opinion is severely swayed when expectations are factored in.

And why did you expect so much? Could it be hype? Are you listening to hyperbole? Why?

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Tim Weiman

Re: Which courses are the most overrated in the U.
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2002, 07:29:24 AM »
Paul Richards,

My feelings about Spanish Bay were always mixed.  There are a few holes I always enjoyed and some I hated.  #10 is a strong contender for being one of my least favorite holes anywhere, but holes #7, 14 and 17 I find appealing.

The biggest question in my mind about Spanish Bay is the routing, specifically why the routing takes #10 thru #12 behind the hotel and other facilities.  I can't find virtue in any of these holes and including that land does exactly as you suggest: it undermines the claim for the course to be a links.

Do you know why this land was included?  Do you know why they didn't lay out all the holes on the water side of the hotel?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Which courses are the most overrated in the U.
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2002, 07:41:46 AM »
Mr. Klein,
  Just because Caves Valley is no longer rated, doesn't mean that it isn't overrated. Bethpage wasn't ranked for years until 1997, then dropped off the rankings due to the renovation and is now back in the Top 50. Does that mean that when it was rated in 97 and then dropped off, that it was overrated because of it's quick fall off? I think not. Caves is a bland golf course that has gotten it's reconition on great conditioning and some of it's important members and we all know that because of Caves President that they've gotton some of the tournaments that they have. By the way, Bay Hill hasn't been rated for 5 years or so and it's well overrated
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:08 PM by -1 »
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Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

A_Clay_Man

Re: Which courses are the most overrated in the U.
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2002, 08:03:31 AM »
Tim- If it isn't obvious why the hotel was built where it is, I don't know what is.

 I also disagree with your feelings about 10-13. If for no other reason than they are perfect, if only to get to #14, One of the best golf holes on the peninsula. Ten is an amazingly tough hole with all the characteristics of strategic design. #11 is a great breather dogleg right short par 4, while still being challenging around the green. And 12, twelve may be the toughest day in day out. Accuracy off the tee and one of the best green sites, above the Baranka, with deep bunkers on the front right. Par is a great score. 13 is close enough to the Postage Stamp hole that anything from 1 to 6 six can easily be scored there.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Ky_3-Putt

Re: Which courses are the most overrated in the U.
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2002, 08:53:54 AM »
My first post...be gentle.  In my golfing experiences, I would, under the definitions given above for over-rated, list TPC Scottsdale as the most over-rated that I have played.  I didn't find it to be near the golf course that Greyhawk was, just down the road.

Oh well, like I said, be gentle.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Jeff_Lewis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Which courses are the most overrated in the U.
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2002, 11:56:46 AM »
under-rated: yeamans hall. el saler, kingston heath, ganton. moraine, desert forest
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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brad_miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Which courses are the most overrated in the U.
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2002, 12:06:47 PM »
Trump Nat'l, by at least one man :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Rob_Waldron

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Which courses are the most overrated in the U.
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2002, 01:57:14 PM »
My experience playing Bay Hill was that it exceeded my expectations!  I had always thought Bay Hill was a typical Florida style course routed through a residential development. Fortunately AP's involvment extends far beyond his 12:15 game with the boys. The original Dick Wilson (I think) design has been tweaked over the years resulting in a very challenging and enjoyable course. One note ...be sure to remove your hat before entering the clubhouse.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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