[Patrick_Mucci]

AdamJessie, et. al.,

If developers have different goals in mind, and they direct the architect along those lines, how can you compare two golf courses ?

If their purpose or focus was different from the get go, how can you compare them when they were intended to serve different masters/disciplines/functions ?

[Adam_Jessie]

Wayne - How did I know that somehow the discussion would turn to shinnecock in some way. ( I agree with you about that as well).

Pat - When I started this thread I guess I was just tryng to get thoughts of those who were fortunate enough to have seen both. Because, lets face it there is not really any other reason to go to Holyoke. Unless you need gas on the way to sandhills from Denver.

I would say that it is safe to say that you really have to work to get to either one of these courses.  I was not tring to start a war like the one that has been endlessly argued on this website for years about shinnecock and National.  I think that the issue of immigration reform will be solved more easily than the SH vs. NGLA argument.   They are both outstanding golf courses and deserve all the praise that receive, especially in an age when there seems to still be an abundance of bad golf courses still being built. I feel pretty lucky to have seen and played all the courses that I have. I think that Wayne will back me up on this.  I have seen my share of quality courses and I can say with complete confidence that they are two of the best I have ever seen. I simply wanted to see what people thought about the two.

John Kirk - When I referred to Ballyneal as being raw I was referring to the experience. Meaning that it is not polluted by Carts, Clutter on the first tee, 5 sets of tee markers, ect... I am sure that we have all had experiences on golf courses that seem to remind us of a trip to "South of the Boarder" Matt Burrows will back me up on this one. In regards to the maintence quality of the golf course.  The condition of Ballyneal was EXACTLY as it should be Dave Hensley and his staff should be very proud of what they have done.

[John Kirk]

Adam,

Yes, I understand what you mean.

[Adam Clayman]

Adam- I used your term "RGE" yesterday when I brought a local friend who had never been to any place even remotely like BN. We were walking up the first fairway with a nice breeze out of the SE and it just seemed like the perfect term.
This friend is local boy. Hits the ball a country mile, yet is a 14 handicap. A great scramble partner, who I have seen hit the ball 400 yards downwind. We played the back tee on #11 (200y) and he hit it over the green with an 8 iron. The guy isn't always the straightest of hitters and made several recovery shots from the sparse surrounds. He didn't lose a single ball and literally had the time of his life.

It's those types of experiences, which I have been blessed to witness many times now, in my short stint as a member, that make being a member of place like BN even more special. If Mr. Doak could see the faces of the uninitiated after playing his masterpiece, maybe he'd think higher of it?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Adam,

My reference to SH vs NGLA was an attempt to frame the comparison in the context of two great, but different, golf courses.  While golfers may have their preferences, on a once in a lifetime or daily usage basis, both are great courses where comparisons fall short, except in Wayne's eyes.

As to Ballyneal and Sebonack, both aren't conveniently located unless you live close by.

I think Sebonack benefits from the East End's summer influx of vacationers AND its neighbors.  Golfers who come to play NGLA, SH, Maidstone, Atlantic, The Bridge, Friar's Head, Laurel Links, Southampton and Easthampton will give thought to playing other courses, Sebonack amongst them.

Hence, I think Sebonack will attract more attention and play.

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