[Matt_Cohn]

The back nine of Royal Montreal features what seems like an odd routing around what I assume was a single natural lake.

Click here to see on Google Maps

I'm interested in what others think of the routing - is the lake overutilized? Underutilized? Brilliantly utilized?

Is it unbalanced, with water to the left of four drives and to the right of none?

[Bill_McBride]

The back nine at LaCumbre CC - George Thomas original routing in Santa Barbara with some evolution over the decades - has four holes wrapping around a big lake.  There's a cape tee shot on #12 par 5, a Redan-like par, 3 239 yards #13, a hard dogleg left #14 around 410 yards, and a par 4 #15 with water down the left side but pretty far from the line of play.  All the water is on the left side where it's more threatening to the stronger player.

I think in both cases it's terrific routing and utilization of a natural feature.

[Matt Kardash]

I could be wrong but i don't think that lake is natural...it really isn't that big.
Google maps shows the course pre Rees Jones. Interesting to see some of the changes, namely 16, 17, and 18, and the redesign of 12 and 13. The last 5 or 6 holes make for fun match play...i'll give the course that.

[Jeff_Mingay]

matt k.'s right. Rees and co. have changed the routing at Royal Montreal-Blue (posted aerial, linked above). From what I hear (from reliable and trusted sources) the green site at the formerly excellent par-4 sixteenth hole is moved - perhaps the most significant change to Dick Wilson's original design.  

[Philippe Binette]

Rees routing changes

1) 12 was a par 3 and 13 a par 5 before

2) 15th green was right by the lake (where the patch of pointless fairway is now on 15th)

3) that allowed 16th tee to be where 15th green is now, so 16th was one of the best cape hole (as far as the angle of the tee shot is concern), now it's a par 4 with a lake somewhere on the left...


Sorry Jeff I couldn't resist answering that one...

[Jeff_Mingay]

Coincidentally, I was going to call Montreal's own Philippe Binette out with my previous post  

[Matt Kardash]

Coincidentally, I was going to call Montreal's own Philippe Binette out with my previous post  

Hey, i'm from montreal too!  

I don't think the green site at 16 has changed. It looks like Rees Jones reshaped the green and changed the bunker complexes.

[Jeremy_Glenn.]

Matt's right.

The 16th putting surface is the ONLY feature that remains from the old Blue Course.  Every other bunker and green has been changed.

[Robert Thompson]

I'm not a fan of Royal Montreal, but I do think the routing isn't bad. There are also a lot of holes on the property -- 45 in all -- and that must have made for some interesting routing decisions.
I've found a couple of holes this week to be intriguing, as well as the ability of the pros to use Rees' slopes as elements to add backwards spin, especially in short shots. I think the 14th is quite a good short four, though admittedly it is in a style that has been done to death.
Overall, many are going to rave about the course -- but truthfully, if you play it, it is a hard property to love. And, as my brother, who has not played it, but only seen it on TV, noted: "It looks like a Florida course in Quebec." And he's right -- cause that's what it is.

[Guy Nicholson]

It's totally a Florida-style course, that's great Rob. I was there yesterday and couldn't quite put a finger on that.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Matt's right.

The 16th putting surface is the ONLY feature that remains from the old Blue Course.  Every other bunker and green has been changed.

Apparently 'Penguin' Binette's provided me with incorrect info.  

[Matthew Rose]

The thing that really bothered me about the course is that 15 and 16 are almost exactly the same hole. In fact I often would mistake one for the other while watching the coverage on TV. That seems like really poor design to me.

From what I understand 15 green used to be shorter and closer to the water. That would have been a far more interesting hole. Why would you move the ball 50 yards up from the lake just to make it longer?

Overall I think it was a really good match-play course though, especially 17 and 18.

My favourite part of the whole event was the player introductions half in French. Vive l'equipe d'Etas-Unis!

[Jeremy_Glenn.]

Matt Rose,

Actually, 15 and 16 are VERY different holes, if nothing else since they play in opposite directions so the ever-present wind in that open area makes them play differently.

But more importantly, the water comes into play very differently off the tee.  On 15, the water is on the OUTSIDE of the dogleg, cutting diagonally from left to right.  You can't see the fairway either, only the water.  The longer you want to drive it down the fairway, the more you've got to shape your tee shot.  On 16, the water is on the INSIDE, inviting out to hug it as much as possible.

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