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Tommy_Naccarato

If Pine Valley is indeed heaven, then John Ott won't have far to walk.

Regrettably, Pine Valley's beloved former mayor and great supporter of this website passed last Tuesday, due to complications from Pneumonia.

John was a daily visitor of the website; as well as a great friend to many of us here on Golf Club Atlas, Golf for me, will not be the same without him, simply because we have not only lost a valuable resource to one of the Sport's most beloved places; but also a friend who guided us in our pursuits for more knowledge in the subject of golf architecture.

One of my favorite moments with John was searching out the lost right fairway at Pine Valley #17. I'll never forget finding the remnants of some lost bunkers buried in the trees, and in excitement, I yelled out, John, I think I found some bunkers! Barely able to see out of the trees, I saw him across the fairway in his golf cart, smiling, knowing that Pine Valley and George Crump had captured the heart of another satisfied enthusiast.

Thankfully, I have a very keen memento to always remember him by. His inscription in my Pine Valley book reads, To Tommy Naccarato, the first person who ever deliberately took on the DAH and won!--John Ott

Thanks for everything Mayor Ott. Thanks for eveything.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2007, 03:13:04 PM by Tommy Naccarato »

Adam Clayman

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Re:The Passing of a Great Man--Pine Valley's Mayor Emeritus, John Ott
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2007, 01:47:02 PM »
Moving tribute Tommy.
Thanx for sharin'.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Brian Phillips

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Re:The Passing of a Great Man--Pine Valley's Mayor Emeritus, John Ott
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2007, 01:54:34 PM »
That is so sad.  I sent him an e-mail two weeks ago and wondered why for the first time ever I had not received one back.

I have never met a nicer man in golf.

Brian
Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

David Stamm

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Re:The Passing of a Great Man--Pine Valley's Mayor Emeritus, John Ott
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2007, 01:57:42 PM »
Very sad news. TEP mentioned him to me a few times and talked very highly of him. I regret I never got the chance to meet him. Best wishes to the family. Very moving post Tommy.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Dan Herrmann

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Re:The Passing of a Great Man--Pine Valley's Mayor Emeritus, John Ott
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2007, 07:25:47 PM »
I met Mr. Ott a few years ago - wonderful gentleman.

Ironically, I remember walking by his house at PV during the Crump Cup and thinking about the brief laughs we shared.

He could've treated me like I wasn't there, but he made me feel welcome.

Tommy - thanks for the words.

Kirk Gill

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Re:The Passing of a Great Man--Pine Valley's Mayor Emeritus, John Ott
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2007, 10:45:55 PM »
Well written, Tommy. A heartfelt tribute.

Thank you.
"After all, we're not communists."
                             -Don Barzini

Gib_Papazian

Re:The Passing of a Great Man--Pine Valley's Mayor Emeritus, John Ott
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2007, 12:57:30 AM »
Tommy..The Great Man was still Mayor of Pine Valley, right?

Only met him once; what a great man in the same vein as Uncle Bob - a friend to all those who love the game and appreciate its finest playing fields.

I am not sure how different Heaven will be . . . . . . the sad passing of one of us . . . .  

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:The Passing of a Great Man--Pine Valley's Mayor Emeritus, John Ott
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2007, 09:08:45 PM »
Gib,
I would like to think of it that he will always be the mayor, forever.

However, John once told me he was no longer the actual mayor of the Pine Valley village/town/burrough, just sort of a citizen--in a way. Of course I wasn't buying that, and I told him exactly that! I don't think there was a single person who ever met John that did not think of him as anything but the mayor.

I feel the person that best knew him and will hopefully be posting soon is Tom Paul. (He's on his way to Pittsburgh as I type this)

Every time Tom has ever mentioned  John to me in a conversation, you could tell the admiration in Tom's voice. John's words carried a lot of weight with all of us, and that goes for anyone I know of that was fortunate to have met him.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2007, 09:13:39 PM by Tommy Naccarato »

Mike_Cirba

Re:The Passing of a Great Man--Pine Valley's Mayor Emeritus, John Ott
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2007, 09:21:25 PM »
God Bless Mayor Ott and his family.

I only had a single opportunity to meet the man, and I knew it was him at the next table over lunch based on overhearing the conversation.

Afterwards, in one of the hallways, I gathered my nerve and walked up and introduced myself as "Mike Cirba from GolfClubAtlas."

He didn't flinch in the least and his casual response let me instantaneously know that he was more than familiar with our particular brand of architectural fanaticism.  Instead, he began to engage me in conversation about the changes that were taking place on the golf course...particularly around what he considered some over-grooming and resistance to opening up some of the alpine-over-crowded fairways.  He told me the reasons he thought that was the case like he was sharing an inside secret with an old friend, which I will never divulge.

Like a favored uncle, or a grandfather whose wisdom was so shining and apparent that you find yourself hanging on every word, I shook his hand and walked away, certain that I had not uttered a single syllable that was worthy of his valuable time, but grateful that every word he said to me in return was filled with the treasure of a lifetime of knowledge borne of intellectual curiosity and brilliant insight.

I will always smile when I think of that day, and every time I wonder why I choose to spend so much of my time on this lunatic asylum of a website, I will remember listening to Mayor Ott and his table in the Pine Valley clubhouse, as they talked about the things written here as if they were relevant and worthy of note.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2007, 09:41:56 PM by MikeCirba »

Jeff_Mingay

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Re:The Passing of a Great Man--Pine Valley's Mayor Emeritus, John Ott
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2007, 07:23:21 AM »
This is very sad, shocking news.

I had the good fortune to play golf with John Ott at Pine Valley a few years ago. It was a wonderful day. I learned a lot from John and, his hospitality was amazingly generous.

I've also enjoyed corresponding with him since, mostly about hockey. John's a Philadelphia Flyers fanatic. (I can't stand the Flyers, and always made that clear to him!)

My very best to the Ott family. RIP John.

 
jeffmingay.com

Michael Wharton-Palmer

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Re:The Passing of a Great Man--Pine Valley's Mayor Emeritus, John Ott
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2007, 09:46:54 AM »
I remember meeting Mr Ott at my first Crump.
I assume I had the deer in the headlight look on my face as I was playing #6..because he walked up to me and simply asked first time huh?
He then walked with me for the rest of the front nine telling me stories of the great place.
A very fine gentleman who epitomises all that is Pine Valley.

Jonathan Cummings

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Re:The Passing of a Great Man--Pine Valley's Mayor Emeritus, John Ott
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2007, 05:53:15 PM »
Tommy - thanks for this info.  I played several times with Ott including one time as his partner at PVGC against a team from Merion.  His dogs were always with him at the old driving range.  He was once a 2-3 handicap.  He played PVGC as recently as two weeks ago but after his knees were replaced his game was never quite so good.  he'll be missed.

JC

archie_struthers

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Re:The Passing of a Great Man--Pine Valley's Mayor Emeritus, John Ott
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2007, 06:00:08 PM »
 :D :) 8)

I met John Ott when at eighteen years old, caddying for he and Ernie Ransome and probably Joe Holman too.  When I became an assistant pro at PV, I had started to realize what a special individual Mr. Ott was.

Knowing I fancied myself as quite a recovery artist ( mandated by my errant drives) , he laughed hysterically at some of the attempted miracle shots launched into the night sky.  We recently laughed at how Tom McCarthy and I  always tried to get Charlie (our boss) into skins games after work,  where we invariably would make a couple crazy birdies that got the money...

His quck wit and and penchant for wool sweaters is indelibly etched in my mind, and I'm quite sure he and Mr.Ransome bailed me out of  a few jams after i arrived at work a little worse for wear after alate night at the Jersey Shore....

they knew you can dress the caddy up, but you can't completely reform the reprobate  LOL!

His course management was quite remarkable, and he could give you exact yardage almost anywhere on the course, to anywhere. I often quizzed him about how far he was to the end of the fairway on two, eighteen or hell's half acre, and he took the gentle ribbing as good as he gave.

p.s. he knew the yardage better than anyone.

He was a master of the bump and run, an art that is better suited to the fairways of Ireland than those of "the Valley".  
His answer to why he played those shots....."I'm too weak to hit it high like you"  with a sly wink and a grin"

His sense of humor shines thru, his wit was scathingly sarcastic but never, ever mean spirited.  He wasn't afraid to have fun with anyone, including Mr. Ransome and so I hear Mr. Brewer. He earned this respect!

It's nice to hear some newbies like Mr. Naccarato got to know him, and doesn't surprise me a little bit. His love for golf and Pine Valley was obvious to all who met him.

The memories of this gentle man are special, he was loved by many. God bless to all who knew and will miss him!

JSlonis

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Re:The Passing of a Great Man--Pine Valley's Mayor Emeritus, John Ott
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2007, 06:56:03 PM »
I would like to echo many of the sentiments shared above.  I was fortunate to have known him, if only a little bit, and have him share some great stories about Pine Valley.  He was truly a special gentleman and embodied all that is good about Pine Valley and the legacy that Mr. Crump created.  His presence there will surely be missed.

TEPaul

Re:The Passing of a Great Man--Pine Valley's Mayor Emeritus, John Ott
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2007, 08:49:26 PM »
TommyN:

Thank you very much for this thread and your descriptive and heartfelt first post about John Ott. (And thank you also for your really heartfelt telephone message of yesterday or today).

I heard during the AJDP tournament at Gulph Mills from a good player, a good friend of John's (Mike Brown) that he was in the hospital with pneumonia. He was surprised I didn't know about it but as well as I knew John he was not the type to call friends and relate any problems he had. (I swear something in the back of my bonnet told me that this didn't sound good but I can't tell you why).

I called him and left a message that I was sorry and I was concerned he had been in the hospital with pneumonia. In a few days he called and left a message.

He said:

"I got pneumonia, they took me to the hospital. I'm out now and I'm fine and don't worry about it---I'm going to live."

...and then he laughed that funny little laugh of his.

I'm afraid his message may've been the last phone call he made---but what did I know then, and I erased it.

The next day I was on my way to Long Island and Wayne called me and told me he was gone. I was going to call John on my way up there but for whatever reason I didn't. By then (but in retrospect) I think he was gone.

It was a shock at first but over the last few days I've been getting sadder about it.

I think the reason is, I'm beginning to truly realize what a special guy he was.

And why was that?

To me John Ott was the personification of a humble man. (I'd appreciate it if some of the contributors on this website would tell me what their definition of a truly "humble" man is because I have mine---and it's about being good, it's about being unegoistical, it's about being thoughtful, it's about being giving about the things you care about without expectations in return---it's something like John Ott was, in my mind).

I called one of the people around here who knew him well to tell him John died and he eventually said most of the members of these special clubs today wouldn't be able or wouldn't even know how to carry John Ott's jockstrap---and that these special clubs needed now to have more people like him. That's probably true to say.

What I know is I really will miss him so much.

He just loved golf (and thank God Almighty he played golf the very day he died). He loved golf course architecture but perhaps most of all, and having lived on the 9th hole for perhaps 35 years, he loved Pine Valley.

But, you know what----within the last few years when Cypress Point topped Pine Valley as the #1 course in America, I went down there and played with him and asked him what he thought about "them apples"---and John said:

"Im not sure I'd disagree with that."

I'd like those who knew him to think about something that could be done in his memory that'd be appropriate.

But it will have to be modest.

That's the only way he would've wanted it.








TEPaul

Re:The Passing of a Great Man--Pine Valley's Mayor Emeritus, John Ott
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2007, 09:25:51 PM »
Gib and Tommy et al:

Was John the mayor of Pine Valley when he died?

No. He gave up that position maybe five years ago.

Why was he almost always called "The Mayor" (of Pine Valley)?

Well, it was probably (including in his opinion) because being the Mayor of Pine Valley was incredibly simple. He told me all it really involved was opening and sending some mail. I once asked him how long he would like to be the Mayor of Pine valley (I think he did it for 20-25 years) and he told me only until they could find somebody else willing to take his place.

That kind of self-deprecating humor is why so many loved John Ott and also why they invariably called him "THE MAYOR".

But it wasn't that inconsequential, I'll guarantee you.

I'm an inveterate speeder and one time John and I were going somewhere and I got stopped for excessive speed. John, in his inimitable way let it slip to the busting officer that he was a member of the Nation's mayors and a member of the Chiefs of Police and that he too was shocked by my performance and was very sorry he hadn't controlled it.

The trooper just said; "Then would you tell this bozo to tone it down?" And he let us go.

We had a lot of laughs, that's for sure.  ;)

Mike_Cirba

Re:The Passing of a Great Man--Pine Valley's Mayor Emeritus, John Ott
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2007, 10:01:10 PM »
Tom Paul,

One thing I would divulge from my eavesdropping on his lunch conversation regarding GolfClubAtlas was his mention of you.

To the best of my ability to recollect his exact words, it was something like, "Tommy Paul is on there a lot....he knows a hell of a lot about architecture."

TEPaul

Re:The Passing of a Great Man--Pine Valley's Mayor Emeritus, John Ott
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2007, 10:45:44 PM »
"To the best of my ability to recollect his exact words, it was something like, "Tommy Paul is on there a lot....he knows a hell of a lot about architecture."

Mike Cirba:

In my opinion, John Ott was a wonderful man, a great guy to know, but I feel he knew, and he knew that I knew, he was definitely not right about everything.  ;)

On the other hand, he really, really wanted me to write that architectural creation story or report of Pine Valley. I kept telling him I was going to do it and he kept telling me he wasn't going to hold his breath.

Now, I'm really motivated to do it and do it as well as I possibly can. And if I do, there's nothing else to dedicate it to other than him.

JESII

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Re:The Passing of a Great Man--Pine Valley's Mayor Emeritus, John Ott
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2007, 09:01:11 AM »
I knew Mr. Ott only a bit, and would agree that he was kind, humble and possesed a sharp sense of humor...as much as anything, I think if I am fortunate enough to play there again, the ninth will seem strangely different to me...

TEPaul

Re:The Passing of a Great Man--Pine Valley's Mayor Emeritus, John Ott
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2007, 09:34:12 AM »
Maybe this was mentioned on a post on here (I don't want to read through the posts again to see) but I think it will give all of you a real kick. Maybe I learned it from LennyW---thanks Lenny for your message and I'm sorry it took a few days to hear it and call back--I was in NYC).

You could always tell John's cart---it was always filled with old balls and other junk and as long as I've known him he always had one of those odd white furry things on his steering wheel. So if his cart was at his house or at the clubhouse or up on the range you always knew he was nearby.

Apparently after getting out of the hospital John went up to the range probably with his new dog (his beloved old one died recently) and practiced and then played or else played and then practiced. And he did all this on the day he died.

For those who really love golf and who love golf courses like John Ott loved golf and loved Pine Valley, don't you all just wish that we could all play the course we really love on the very day we die, like John did?

« Last Edit: October 02, 2007, 09:35:43 AM by TEPaul »

Adam_Messix

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Re:The Passing of a Great Man--Pine Valley's Mayor Emeritus, John Ott
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2007, 01:09:48 PM »
Tom P--

You are right about Mayor Ott's golf cart, it's one of a kind.  I'm glad to hear that you are inspired to write a Pine Valley evolution report, it should be something else.  

I was really saddened to hear about John Ott's passing.  As has been stated many times earlier, he was a very nice man and passionate about golf and Pine Valley.  It was a somber few days there late last week.  He was such a repository of information about Pine Valley; last year when a caddie aced #12, they were unsure as to whether it was the first or not.  They asked the Mayor who quickly answered that it was the first one.

What I enjoyed most about Mayor Ott was how he had such an open mind about architecture and wasn't quick to say something was great or awful, but would discuss the pros and cons and usually say the jury was still out (there are a couple of lengthy threads on here.  His comments about CPC come as no surprise to me.  

PGertner

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Re:The Passing of a Great Man--Pine Valley's Mayor Emeritus, John Ott
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2007, 01:35:09 PM »
I am very sad as I write this.  Mr. Ott was a wonderful man...as everyone here has posted.  

Mr. Ott and all the wonderful people I met during my 5 years at Pine Valley were more special than the golf course.

Patrick Gertner


TEPaul

Re:The Passing of a Great Man--Pine Valley's Mayor Emeritus, John Ott
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2007, 02:01:27 PM »
Adam:

It was always so interesting to me the way John looked at the golf course and its evolution.

He accepted most of what was done there over the years but certainly not all.

I think he really enjoyed the prospect of trees coming down but he never seemed to look at that as someone in a hurry would. How ironic is that at a time like this?

But I don't think he ever wanted to see as many come down as some on here do who will never understand the place and its history even 10% as well as he did. Like anyone he had his opinions on things like specific trees. For instance, he just couldn't stand that big tree on the right that balls can get near on the second shot on the 15th hole. I never knew why that was, I only know I automatically disagreed with him on that one every time he mentioned it just to get him going.  ;)

The way he looked at Crump was even more interesting to me.

He seemed to have total respect, perhaps even reference for the man. But the thing that interested me most was perhaps the thing he taught me that is the most valuable of all about Pine Valley and the so-called Philly School of architecture.


He said that in his opinion they were merely close friends and golfing companions who collaborated with one another as friends do on various things that are not considered by them to be proprietary. I used that remark of John's in some of the things I wrote about the Philly School in some publications, and I always mentioned the source as John Ott, the Mayor of Pine Valley.

He seemed to have a real sense of what they probably really were----eg men, amateurs--ie self-described sportsmen who probably had a lot more raw talent than most any professional architect is willing to admit but perhaps somewhat less than we, who tend to over-glorify them give  them create for.

John always referred to him as Mr Crump.

Once when we were walkng off #2 green he said to me: 'What can you say about a man who had the imagination to create this?"

But the best time of all was when he sat next to me literally for hours as we went over Colt's hole by hole booklet as I redrew all the sketches and copied the text on legal paper. The eternal riddle of what Colt did and what Crump did was being solved in detail right before his eyes. John probably knew ever inch of that course better than anyone and certainly well enough to recognize exactly how to give credit to Colt for what he really did there as was shown in that booklet. On the other hand, when we were done he stood up and said: "My faith in Mr Crump is reconfirmed."

But then, when I began to explain to him in real detail the things the record shows Crump was willing to do or going to do had he lived, John said to me---"My God, if he tried to do that now, I might shoot him myself", and then he laughed.

There's a word for people who both love and appreciate the way things are if and when they truly like them. They really don't like or ever appreciate much change, if any.

I can never remember what that word is but it describes what John was like pretty well and the way he felt about architecture and Pine Valley.  
« Last Edit: October 02, 2007, 02:15:47 PM by TEPaul »

George Pazin

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Re:The Passing of a Great Man--Pine Valley's Mayor Emeritus, John Ott
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2007, 02:12:34 PM »
Thanks for sharing the stories, so that those of us who hadn't had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Ott can better understand the feelings of those who did.

I know this is an architecture board, but the #1 reason I love golf is meeting new people, each special in his own way (even if some are more special than others! :)).
« Last Edit: October 02, 2007, 02:13:10 PM by George Pazin »
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

TEPaul

Re:The Passing of a Great Man--Pine Valley's Mayor Emeritus, John Ott
« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2007, 02:24:44 PM »
Here's a little item that describes just how generous JO could be with people when it came to Pine Valley.

Do you remember Andrew Bernstein on here?

Back in the beginning of this site, I think Andrew was something like 18 and he just IMed John Ott totally out of the blue with no help or introduction from me or anyone on here and asked him if he could come up from West Virginia and play the course.

John didn't hestitate to have him up, not for a moment.

There are others on here who've been like that in the past with their generosity with some of these sought after and special clubs and courses. Willie Dow has been the same way that way as John was.

Guys like those are just examples of what some of those old-line generous gentlemen were about. But one always needs to understand that and how never to take advantage of them.

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