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John Kavanaugh

Re:World's Best Green?
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2007, 10:27:10 AM »
Someone needs to protect the general public from paying these guys for going on golf trips.
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JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:World's Best Green?
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2007, 10:31:02 AM »
That's what we're trying to do on here...I thought...
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ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:World's Best Green?
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2007, 10:32:46 AM »
Kingsley #4
NGLA #1 or #3
Fishers Island #12
Dornoch #7
North Berwick #15
Pacific Dunes #5
Crystal Downs #6 or #13
Prairie Dunes #17


A start, final pick to come later.
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"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:World's Best Green?
« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2007, 10:38:48 AM »
To single out one of the greens at Pine Valley is very difficult, and I fully understand the recognition of #2..howevere my favourite at Pine Valley is #15..the perfectly brutal end to a perfectly brutal hole...or is it #18 for the same reasons..or is it #5 for the same reasons...or is iy #13 for the same reasons ...you get my drift.

I also love #15 at merion....#12 at Royal birkdale.....#10/11 at Fishers Island....#11 at St Andrews...#5 AT Western Gailes
oh one could go on and on....the pictured one from Banbougle looks like it could be one as well!
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Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:World's Best Green?
« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2007, 10:39:24 AM »
Nos. 2, 5 and 12 at Machrihanish.
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JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:World's Best Green?
« Reply #30 on: September 27, 2007, 10:41:28 AM »
MWP,

Agreed about the others at PV, my personal second choice there is #16...but...I disagree that there is a comparison on the property. 15 is amazing, and 13 is as well, but #2 could be an exciting golf experience all on its own...
« Last Edit: September 27, 2007, 10:41:44 AM by JES II »
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ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:World's Best Green?
« Reply #31 on: September 27, 2007, 10:49:49 AM »
Upon further  contemplation, I give up. :P There are just too many great greens on the heralded courses of the world.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2007, 03:51:27 PM by ed_getka »
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"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:World's Best Green?
« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2007, 10:51:04 AM »
Jim,
No argument here at all...that entire hole could easily be one of the 5 best holes anywhere in the world.
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Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:World's Best Green?
« Reply #33 on: September 27, 2007, 10:53:04 AM »
Although reading a thread on here the other day, I was reading about somebody hitting sand iron into that hole?

That must be one long hitting dude..or I am incredibly short..I never hit less than driver/9 iron into that hole in 6 rounds during the Crump
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JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:World's Best Green?
« Reply #34 on: September 27, 2007, 11:06:45 AM »
I think the Hurricane is a good long hitter, but he also likely (correct me Jim if I'm wrong) played the regular tees...

The other thing is that (at least on Th. - Sat.) we played to deep pins which adds 10  - 25 yards to the play yardage as compared to a short right pin...
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Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:World's Best Green?
« Reply #35 on: September 27, 2007, 11:31:30 AM »
Quote from: JES II on September 27, 2007, 11:06:45 AM
I think the Hurricane is a good long hitter, but he also likely (correct me Jim if I'm wrong) played the regular tees...

The other thing is that (at least on Th. - Sat.) we played to deep pins which adds 10  - 25 yards to the play yardage as compared to a short right pin...

We played the tips each round. I was right by the #5 sprinkler which is 80 yards from the front of the green. My caddie said the pin was on 22 and the shot would play 115. I usually blow up with all of that info (I went to Miami for God's sake), but this caddy was good. He could read putts too which helped me drain a 20 footer for birdie on #18 too.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2007, 11:33:05 AM by Jim Franklin »
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Mr Hurricane

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:World's Best Green?
« Reply #36 on: September 27, 2007, 11:37:26 AM »
Check that MWP...The Hurricane IS very long...how he found a caddy at PV that could actually help him though is the real miracle in all of this...couldn't have been Rocky...
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Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:World's Best Green?
« Reply #37 on: September 27, 2007, 11:42:40 AM »
Nope, it wasn't Rocky. Our two caddies were Lance and Jim. Lance moved at a glacial pace but could read greens like no other and Jim was really good at everything although he would give a TON of info. Even during your putt.
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Mr Hurricane

Jay Flemma

Re:World's Best Green?
« Reply #38 on: September 27, 2007, 11:47:19 AM »
Well what do you mean by best?  Seen the most history?  Coolest shape?  Hardest?  When you say "Green" do you mean just the green or the green complex?  That's the difference between including the Road Hole in the discussion or not...

If by best you mean "most historic" I'd have to vote a tie between the 17th and 18th at TOC.

If you mean "most interesting architecturally," its a great question...one I'll have to think about...you've given the starving man a menu, so hang tight for a minute while I parse through the seafood section...
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Norbert P

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:World's Best Green?
« Reply #39 on: September 27, 2007, 12:25:00 PM »
Quote from: Ryan Farrow on September 27, 2007, 03:28:35 AM


Is this the Sitwell Park inspired green? Or is that at St. Andrews Beach?

I believe that would be #16. Here is a small picture. Not from my camera.



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"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

Gib_Papazian

Re:World's Best Green?
« Reply #40 on: September 27, 2007, 01:40:37 PM »
Years ago, I heard an interview with Peggy Lee, who was asked to name the best Jazz Singer.

Her response: "You mean, besides Ella?"

#6 at NGLA is the Ella Fitzgerald of this question. It has so many impossibly intricate elements, every move of the pin introduces a completely different strategy.

Who is the Peggy Lee?

#13, Sea Headrig at Prestwick. I hope one of the Treehouse has a good photo of the green handy as IMNSHO it is the best example of how to design a putting surface with wild movement, but without a hint of artificiality.

Now, if we are to take a more elastic view of the question, the Ladies Putting Course at St. Andrews is the final word of the discussion.

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JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:World's Best Green?
« Reply #41 on: September 27, 2007, 02:25:25 PM »
Gib,

I have not been to NGLA, so forgive an elementary question, could you elaborate on "every move of the pin introduces a completely different strategy..."
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Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:World's Best Green?
« Reply #42 on: September 27, 2007, 02:38:10 PM »
No. 6 at Riviera with the sand trap in the middle. Only one I know of on a classic course. I am sure someone will come up with others I am not aware of.
Visually, standing on No. 8 green at Pebble and looking out to the left or right towards the cliffs and ocean is a religous experience.
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I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:World's Best Green?
« Reply #43 on: September 27, 2007, 02:39:55 PM »
Sully -

#6 is their Short Hole and the green is awesome. There is a little plateau in the middle and if the pin is there, you better be accurate with your tee shot. The slopes and contours around this part of the green are pronounced and if the pin is right, you cannot be anything but right and vice versa. Plus the entire green is surrounded by bunkers. It is a very interesting hole for a wedge shot.
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Mr Hurricane

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:World's Best Green?
« Reply #44 on: September 27, 2007, 02:42:06 PM »
Jim,
   #6 is the Short. One  of the biggest greens you'll ever see on a Short, but it has what I call a donut in the middle, imagine a kids wading pool grassed over in the middle, then the green is tipped so that it runs from back left to front right, virtually surrounded by sand and you have a short iron in hand. And yet, in spite of the size of the green, you effectively have a tiny target to fire at no matter where they put the pin. A brilliant green IMO.
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"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:World's Best Green?
« Reply #45 on: September 27, 2007, 02:51:33 PM »
Shiv, Jim and Ed,

Thanks...interestingly, I looked at the review of NGLA and in it are a couple of lines about best tee in the world (maybe #1) and obviously referrenced this green as a work of art...anyway...I am not challenging the assertion that this green is phenomenal...but the Sistine Chapel was painted in Clementon, NJ...sorry fellas.



EDIT:  just looked again, the tee was #17...
« Last Edit: September 27, 2007, 02:52:55 PM by JES II »
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Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:World's Best Green?
« Reply #46 on: September 27, 2007, 02:53:47 PM »
Quote from: Shivas Schmidt on September 27, 2007, 02:47:30 PM
It is the only par 3 I have ever played in my life where I  consciously opted not to try to hit the green.  With the pin front right, I aimed at the front right corner fringe, figuring that any sort of tug long or left was a sure 3 whack and that my best shot at 3 was either a very modest (no more than 8-10 feet) pull, or getting up and down from the bunker.

That's funny. I don't remember the hole but my caddie told me to miss the green on a par 3 at Pine Tree and I will make par, but if I hit the green I would make bogey. Three guys hit the green and all made 4 and I missed to the right and made my par. I wish I remembered the hole number.
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Mr Hurricane

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:World's Best Green?
« Reply #47 on: September 27, 2007, 02:56:18 PM »
Quote from: JES II on September 27, 2007, 02:51:33 PM
Shiv, Jim and Ed,

Thanks...interestingly, I looked at the review of NGLA and in it are a couple of lines about best tee in the world (maybe #1) and obviously referrenced this green as a work of art...anyway...I am not challenging the assertion that this green is phenomenal...but the Sistine Chapel was painted in Clementon, NJ...sorry fellas.



EDIT:  just looked again, the tee was #17...

I have both PV and NGLA in my top 3. While PV is a better challenge to the golfer, I think NGLA is a more fun round of golf. This topic certainly deserves its own thread though. Both are magnificent.
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Mr Hurricane

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:World's Best Green?
« Reply #48 on: September 27, 2007, 02:58:21 PM »
When I say Sistine Chapel, all I am referring to is the second green...mindnumbing is what it is, really.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2007, 02:58:34 PM by JES II »
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Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:World's Best Green?
« Reply #49 on: September 27, 2007, 02:58:58 PM »
Nuff said.
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Mr Hurricane
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