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George Pazin

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Crump Cup in T&L Golf
« on: September 05, 2007, 01:38:20 PM »
The latest issue of T&L Golf has an article written by Tom Dunne, a poster on here (in addition to being an actual working writer :)), on The Crump Cup. (Sorry, no link to the on=line stuff yet.)

Tom's work is always first rate, so I'm sure it will provoke some interesting discussion this time after a few of us have had a chance to read it. I am going to have to insist that people who have actually played in the CC buy the issue and comment - don't make me hunt you down!

Would golf courses be different if events like The Crump Cup, the National Singles, and the Coleman got heavy media coverage?

My gut says no - I think too many folks learned the wrong lessons from PV anyway!
« Last Edit: September 05, 2007, 01:39:31 PM by George Pazin »
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

George Pazin

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Re:Crump Cup in T&L Golf
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2007, 11:41:39 AM »
Got a chance to read Tom's article last night.

Curiously, he touches on things similar to my recent (shouted down :)) thread on the best way to review a golf course, implying that seeing the top am's play at PV is an excellent way to see how the golf course plays. I couldn't agree more!

I will post a link to the article when it comes online, but it would be great to hear from Tom, Jamie, Jim and Michael whenever possible. Go buy a magazine! :)

As an aside, there's also plenty of other interesting things in the article, such as a little sidebar on the chef at Ballyneal, a possible itinerary for someone doing a public course tour through southeast PA by Jeff Silverman, and also another piece by Jeff on solo golf trips. I yearn for the day I can go for a week's peace in Tasmania.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Tom Birkert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Crump Cup in T&L Golf
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2007, 11:55:36 AM »
I would dearly love a link to the article as and when it is online. I don't know if we get the US version of that mag over here but my flatmate is heading over to play in it and I'm sure he'd find it interesting (as indeed would I).

wsmorrison

Re:Crump Cup in T&L Golf
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2007, 11:57:26 AM »
Tom,

What is your friend's name so some of us locals can cheer him on...unless he's playing against Jamie, Sully, and MWP  ;)

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Crump Cup in T&L Golf
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2007, 12:45:07 PM »
Although the Sept/Oct issue is not yet up, you can regularly access the current issue of T&L Golf (for free) at:

www.tlgolf.com

They also archive all their back issues there as well.

Tom Huckaby

Re:Crump Cup in T&L Golf
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2007, 01:18:22 PM »
Curiously, he touches on things similar to my recent (shouted down :)) thread on the best way to review a golf course, implying that seeing the top am's play at PV is an excellent way to see how the golf course plays. I couldn't agree more!

George - just to be clear, none of us disagreed that watching top Ams play would be a great way to see how the course plays.  What many of us disagreed with was your OTHER point - that they themselves achieve architectural insight while playing.  That second part just ain't true.   ;)


George Pazin

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Re:Crump Cup in T&L Golf
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2007, 01:32:41 PM »
Those are but minor technicalities. :)
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Tom Dunne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Crump Cup in T&L Golf
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2007, 07:54:28 PM »
One of the great mysteries of my world is when the webmeisters post issues online. I've seen it happen before the print version hits the street (bad) and well after, too. I do hope it turns up before the actual event date!

I didn't read the debate in the other thread, but I was trying to make the general point that a great amateur event like the Crump Cup can be a really nice way to study architecture, esp. compared to a Tour event, where you're confined within the ropes and can't see angles from the perspective of the players. As far as anyone achieving insights while playing, I've got to agree with Wayne Morrison (in the other CC thread currently on page 1), I think many would learn more about PV (especially PV!) by having the luxury of not having to execute the shots themselves. Having played there twice now, it's like a fog sets in and you're just trying to survive. (I'm not a very good player, though, so JMHO)

I do think that some of the participants spend a lot of time digesting a round afterward in search of a greater understanding of PV. Interviewing a handful of the players gave me the impression that it is all hard-earned wisdom. A guy like Garth McGimpsey, who has played in the Walker Cup (!) at PV, still seemed to be asking himself questions about the ideal yardage from which to approach the 2nd green, how much is too much spin, and so on.

Anyway. It's an awesome event, one any card-carrying GCAer would love, guaranteed....

Steve Kline

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Crump Cup in T&L Golf
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2007, 06:12:37 AM »
Do you think you're abilit to understand a course is hurt/slowed by having a caddy? In some ways I say yes because when I have a caddy at places like PV or TOC I rely on them for everything and pretty much do what they say since I've never played the course. Therefore I don't really study/analyze the shots/course which slows down my learning process.

Matt MacIver

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Crump Cup in T&L Golf
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2007, 08:10:40 AM »
Steve - I've had it both ways.  I had the best caddy ever at Bandon -- he really got into my "game" (such that it is) and was very interested in showing me all the angles, nuances, plays, etc.  Great fun.  The next day I had a complete dud, stoner, bag-totter who -- nearly -- ruined the whole experience.  

Even at The Old Course I implored my caddy to show me all the bunkers, the history, etc etc but he wasn't really interested.  So it goes both ways.  

The best times I usually have are when I take a caddy in the a.m. and play again w/o in the afternoon.  

Tom Birkert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Crump Cup in T&L Golf
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2007, 09:39:31 AM »
Tom,

What is your friend's name so some of us locals can cheer him on...unless he's playing against Jamie, Sully, and MWP  ;)

Wayne,

I'm not sure he'd want me naming him without his permission so I will have a chat with him tonight and then update if he agrees. He is a fantastic player, wonderful ball striker and has multiple wins on the major club competitions at our course. He played in the World Club Championship in Korea a few years ago (I think they won) so the lucky git gets all the good trips!

Cheers,

Tom

JeffTodd

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Re:Crump Cup in T&L Golf
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2007, 04:16:30 PM »

Pat Howard

Re:Crump Cup in T&L Golf
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2007, 09:13:46 PM »
From the article:
Quote
It is not unusual to wander into the woods in search of a sliced tee ball only to find it in an ancient, unkept bunker. This isn't exactly by design—tree growth over nine decades has naturally thinned playing corridors in places, but the club hasn't seen any reason to cut them back, either. Which is very much in the spirit of Pine Valley's founder, Philadelphia hotelier George Crump, who believed poor shots should be penalized severely.

Interesting... ;)

AndrewB

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Re:Crump Cup in T&L Golf
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2007, 10:27:27 AM »
Quote
It was on this hole that I first caught up with the group I followed at the 2006 Crump Cup. In it were Buddy Marucci and Trip Kuehne, two of the preeminent amateurs of our time (both were runners-up to Tiger Woods in the U.S. Amateur); Northern Ireland's Garth McGimpsey, who competed in the last major international event at Pine Valley, the 1985 Walker Cup; and Steve Smyers.

That's funny.  In 2006, my father and I followed the same group and we caught up with them a hole earlier.

Nice article, Tom.
"I think I have landed on something pretty fine."