[Jordan Wall]

Also, greens close to mountains, or large bodies of water, can be difficult to read sometimes, for the fact that you have to equate how much a valley, the water, etc will affect the amount of break in the putt.

Nearby mountains, valleys, and bodies of water do not affect the break of a putt.

Sure they do.
Whenever I play Chambers Bay, for instance, I always equate how much the water will affect the break of my putt.  And yes, it does have an effect.

[John_Cullum]

Also, greens close to mountains, or large bodies of water, can be difficult to read sometimes, for the fact that you have to equate how much a valley, the water, etc will affect the amount of break in the putt.

Nearby mountains, valleys, and bodies of water do not affect the break of a putt.

Sure they do.
Whenever I play Chambers Bay, for instance, I always equate how much the water will affect the break of my putt.  And yes, it does have an effect.

No, the only thing making your putts break toward the water is gravity

[Jordan Wall]

Also, greens close to mountains, or large bodies of water, can be difficult to read sometimes, for the fact that you have to equate how much a valley, the water, etc will affect the amount of break in the putt.

Nearby mountains, valleys, and bodies of water do not affect the break of a putt.

Sure they do.
Whenever I play Chambers Bay, for instance, I always equate how much the water will affect the break of my putt.  And yes, it does have an effect.

No, the only thing making your putts break toward the water is gravity

And therefore the water would have an affect on putts...because the water affects the gravity by making putt rolls down toward it.

[Lester George]

Jeff,

It seems to me that the ones I labor over the most (drawing and field designing) are the ones people tell me are the hardest to read.  I don't know if they are BSing me or not.  But there seems to a correlation between the amount of time I spend on them and that particular comment.  Maybe I'm just no damn good unless I spend an inordinate amount of time on them.  

BTW, some people say most of my greens are "subtle" and require a long study before they are sure of all of the vagaries, but that could just be BS too.  So, in other words, I don't know with regards to my stuff.

Lester

[Dan Kelly]

Also, greens close to mountains, or large bodies of water, can be difficult to read sometimes, for the fact that you have to equate how much a valley, the water, etc will affect the amount of break in the putt.

Nearby mountains, valleys, and bodies of water do not affect the break of a putt.

Sure they do.
Whenever I play Chambers Bay, for instance, I always equate how much the water will affect the break of my putt.  And yes, it does have an effect.

No, the only thing making your putts break toward the water is gravity

And therefore the water would have an affect on putts...because the water affects the gravity by making putt rolls down toward it.

The water affects the gravity? Hmmmm.

Well, sure ... except for those places where the water flows uphill. Man, are those greens hard to read!

[Kyle Harris]

Maybe Jordan has come up with a unified field theory around water...

Jordan, have the people in Stockholm called you yet?

[John_Cullum]

Jordan

Does this theory work in black holes?  

[Joe Hancock]

I think it should be mandatory for us all to put our birth date next to our real names. That way, we might cut poor Jordan a break.....

But, while I'm here...Jordan, does deep water make putts break harder than shallow water?

Joe

[Kalen Braley]

This is an interesting thread as it pertains to the visual trickery where putts seem to break uphill.

There is a road I drive on occasion that goes thru a small mountain range.  In one section, there is a portion of the road where you swear you are going downhill, yet the water is running in the opposite direction verifying you are indeed driving uphill.

I noticed there are two ridgelines in the distance which are easily seen on this section of road.  One is a few hundred feet away, and another ridgeline is perhaps a 1/2 mile away. Both of these ridge lines slope away from the driver, meaning its higher closest to me and drops down for the next mile or so.  I'm guessing this is what gives the illusion that one is driving downhill by noticing these downward sloping ridgelines, even though still ascending the canyon.

I've tried to think of examples of how this is acheived on the course and Tom D describes it best I think....its a perception problem from what your eyes are telling you by looking across the horizon, and what you see by looking at the contours immediately in front of you.

[Kyle Harris]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_Hill

[TEPaul]

"Re:What Makes a Green Hard to Read?"

In my opinion, there's no question of it----it's when the slope of the green actually runs against the slope and sensation of everything else you see and feel. I distinctly felt that sensation today on the 17th of Laurel Valley CC.

[TEPaul]

OR, let me amend that. It's generally one's eyes that make greens hard to read. It's far better to read some greens with one's feet.

[Dan Kelly]

I have some thoughts but want yours first.......

Thanks in advance.....

Well? We're waiting!

Thanks in advance...

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