How come we dont talk more about architect's club and Stephen Kay?

[Jay Flemma]

I know many of us found Links of North dakota terrific and with Architects' proximity to NYC, it seems like it would be right up our alley as would Stephen Kay and his minimalist principles.

http://jayflemma.thegolfspace.com/?p=728

[Joe Bausch]

I happen to love Architects Club, so I'm curious what others will say about it.  If you've never played there and would like to take a peek at over 100+ photos, well, I have them here:

http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Architects_Club/index.html

[ed_getka]

Jay,
   I think part of it is that most of here are more interested in seeing the body of work, rather than a representation of a body of work. I have heard good things about Architect's and Black Creek (?), but I am not going to plan a golf trip around them.

[Doug Braunsdorf]

I felt Stephen did a very good job at Architects.  I would go back there if it wasn't as expensive as it is, and the fact that its location for me is not convenient, whereas if I were to go visit family, I can go to Bethpage or Hominy Hill in the same trip.  But the architecture is good; it's a tough course to play.  
I felt he did great work at Rutgers Golf Course, within the constraints he had (it's short, tight on a property, not a lot of room to move holes and things, but, please, President McCormick, cut some trees down!)  
I had taken some fellow associates there back in July when we were up in Somerset for national development, and all were happy with the course.  The new bunkers are a welcome addition to the course, and make it play a little tougher without feeling gimmicky.  So, well done!  
Same for McCulloughs--Kyle and I liked it--I'm not in that part of the Jersey Shore area as much.  I would like to see Scotland Run.  He was nice enough to stand around, just the two of us, and talk about architecture at an event outside Philadelphia earlier this year.  

[Kyle Harris]

Architects strengths:
MacDonald
Wilson
Emmet
Travis
Tillinghast
Ross 1
Maxwell
Thompson

Meh:
Flynn
Banks
Wilson
Colt/Alison
Old Tom
Ross 2

WTF?:
Thomas
Mackenzie
RTJ, Sr.
Raynor

I like it (and said so in my testimonial on their website) and would go back if given the chance and financial opportunity. The have a PA resident discount on Tuesdays. To me, the WTF? holes are awful representations of the architects, though not necessarily bad holes.

[Mike Sweeney]

I only played it once. I like it and have told a few here to try it. I think if it was a private course on NY Harbor, it would be a different story. Probably would work better in a tourist area like Cape Cod or Jersey Shore as an alternate course.

Sitting in a local market it has to appeal to mainstream golfers as an everyday golfcourse, so some of the features get a little blended between architects.

I like much of Stephen Kay's work, but don't love any of his courses, but that is more a reflection of the market he works in. I think his work on historic courses has had mixed results?

[Billsteele]

Kay did some nice work at Lakewood outside of Cleveland modifying the only Tillinghast design in the Buckeye state. He gave a nice presentation at the Tillinghast Society outing there last year. ..even mentioned GCA.

[Jay Flemma]

Nice pictures!

Kyle, I have to respectfully disagree with you on some and heartily agree with you on others.  I think the backbone of the front side is the 4th and 5th, Emmet-Travis.  

Also, I liked the mackenzie hole.  plus, he nailed the RTJ hole!  He made a good replica of a bad idea!

[Kyle Harris]

Jay,

We're on the same page re: Emmet and Travis, I especially like both those greens.

I loved the first Ross green.

Mackenzie just seemed "hey, he did Augusta... let's make it look like that - but not really." Seriously, did Mackenzie ever build a tiered green that was so uniform and similar? Each of those three tiers is the same.

To me, the Thomas hole just misses... if it's supposed to resemble Thomas misdirection a la the 10th at Riviera, it got the idea of temptation all wrong.

I birdied the RTJ, Sr. hole both times I played it - I think it almost should have been longer.

I think the Raynor hole should have been a biarritz. It almost seems like the decision was made to have MacDonald/Banks/Raynor be the par 3s due to the templates, but they only built a Redan look-alike for Banks (I don't recall, but I don't think that green runs away from the tee, so the purist in me cringed a bit).

Which other holes do you disagreea/agree?

By the way, I saw Genesis in Philadelphia last week and was blown away - apart from Phil's voice being a bit lower, they still have it.

[Steve Lapper]

The purist imitation and best result out there is #14, the Maxwell hole. Its bunkering, green angulation and contours do the man some justice.

Many "coulda, woulda, shoulda's" might have produced a more authentic set of replication and a higher quirk factor, but alas, that was tough to get to on that piece of farmland. Keep in mind that a good deal of the green construction and siting was a result of finding drainable areas. The best part of the "new" Architects is the  additional (missed originally) drainage features added over the past 24 mths.

Its really a fun place, but like any imitation, it does come up short in a few places. Overall though, courses like this remain preferable to so many modern messes....thats for sure.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

Sounds like he achieved something far better than what could describe his metro-NY golf club work.  At Cherry Valley he really came across as having very little architectural know how.  He was responsible for a general plan that included planting hundereds of trees on an Emmett course.  In addition, the plan never mentioned expanding green sizes to their original size--this in spite of the fact that a 1930's aerial hangs in the hallway to the member's grill.  At another course, his rebuit green had to be rebuilt in house and the bunker caved in.  At Sunningdale, his bunkers were nothing close to Raynor/Tille.  He did a restoration at Hampshire, but again, green areas were not expanded, and the best way to describe the bunkers is Kay-Emmett lite--very generic soft bunkers.

[Joe Bausch]

Nice pictures!

Thanks Jay.  It was really fun to take them at this course.

I hope to meet you Friday at McCall.