What has Brown done for you lately?

[Adam Clayman]

Extra points for guessing the course and hole pictured without looking at the url.

Recent statements made by our returning hero, The Mad Armenian, eluded to some headway in battling the Augusta Syndrome.

While here in my region, we get down with brown, I suspect most of the rest of the golfing world still considers 2 inch deep ball marks as an ideal.

Where else are people actually seeing a bronze patina?

[Joe Hancock]

Adam,

My opinion and methodology on this matter has been well documented here and elsewhere. What I have determined is the golfer is more receptive to this mindset than the folks who actually make a living in the golf industry.

Draw your own conclusions.

Joe

[Peter Pallotta]

Joe - thank you. The directness and simplicity of your answer really hit home.

What do you think: are the vested interests in the golf industry too vested and too interested for this ever to change? Is 'playability' the thin wedge of change, or it is the 'environment'?

Thanks
Peter    

[Tom_Doak]

Certainly, Joe is right in regards to the turf industry.  Cultivars of turf are graded on a 1-9 scale for their color in different conditions.

[John Pflum]

You know, it's funny.  Being color blind I can't really tell the difference between green turf and brown turf.  It all looks about the same color to me.  

Now, please don't make fun of my attire when we play together.  

[Sean_A]

Sadly

For the most part, England missed out on brown this year - far too much rain.  September tried to get things whispy with some sunshine, but the temps didn't go high enough.  

The pic is definitely Porthcawl.  I am guessing the 3rd by the look of what seems to be a bunker out there.  Could the pic be any smaller?

Ciao

[Mark Pearce]

Sadly

For the most part, England missed out on brown this year - far too much rain.  September tried to get things whispy with some sunshine, but the temps didn't go high enough.  

The pic is definitely Porthcawl.  I am guessing the 3rd by the look of what seems to be a bunker out there.  Could the pic be any smaller?

Ciao

SEan,

If only you could have been at Alwoodley on Wednesday.  Not quite brown, maybe, but bits of the course were heading that way.  PLaying With Michael Whitaker in the morning it was a delight to see his reaction as drive after drive sailed over banks of gorse which made many fairways semi blind and disappear onto the fairway, only to re-appear as the ball bounced a good 15 feet in the air.  A number of US players commented on how foreign it was to them to have to pitch 20 yards short of a green to get near a back pin position.  Golf as it should be.

[Rich Goodale]

Very well said, Mark.

What also interested me is how radically Alwoodley changed on Thursday, even though there had only been a smattering of rain the day and night before, and just a light sprinkle as we teed off.  The brown was greening as we played, and balls needed to be played closer and closer to the ultimate objective as the day wore on, even though the precipitation was more of a mist than a rain.  By the time we finished, the low parts of the fairway were bright green and piutchmarks were finally appearing on the greens.

There is a immediate and intimate consonance with nature on British and Irish courses that I have never really experienced on any of the many US courses I have played.  This is one of the primary reasons I love playing golf over here so much.

[Mark_Fine]

I just interviewed for a project.  During the round with the Grounds Chairman, I said to him, "You know, brown grass plays just as well as green grass.  It can also even be healthier for the turf because the roots grow deeper."  He looked at me and said, "Absolutely and that is what we need to convince others to understand."  
It was a good day  

[Michael_Stachowicz]

Adam,

My opinion and methodology on this matter has been well documented here and elsewhere. What I have determined is the golfer is more receptive to this mindset than the folks who actually make a living in the golf industry.

Draw your own conclusions.

Joe

I wanted to second this thought and append it a little.  I think there is a generation of golfers who still want their course to be green to keep up with Joneses and impress guests.  I believe these are the older generation.  

I think that down and brown philosophy has legs now because the environmental movement is now mainstream, more golfers have been overseas, more golfers have been reading good golf literature, and maybe some of them even visit this site.

I don't think brown is for every course.  There are courses whose flower studded parkland layouts need to be green to complement the design.  There are courses that can't go dormant gracefully because of the grass types involved (poa doesn't go dormant, it just dies.  Ryes, depending on the stand will get very blotchy and spotty).

It is definitely an art to going down and brown and still make the course look well cared for.

[Brad Swanson]

Adam,
   In the fall, you can have the best of both worlds, at least up here in my part of the woods.  The courses tend to green up after the heat stress of summer without the need of alot of water.  On top of that they play much more firm.  I played a round up in the UP at Greywalls this weekend and the course was really lush, but firm from tee to green, making those DeVries greens come alive in ways I hadn't yet seen in my limited play up there.  Green doesn't always mean mush, although you can travel down I80 and see that for yourself at Wild Horse.


Cheers,
Brad  

[Jim Franklin]

Someone needs to talk with the supers at both our courses. When we asked one of the guys why the course was so soft, he says it is his first year and he does not want to get fired. He said the members wanted the course green. I was like what members are you talking to?

[Adam Clayman]

There is a immediate and intimate consonance with nature on British and Irish courses that I have never really experienced on any of the many US courses I have played.  This is one of the primary reasons I love playing golf over here so much.

Rihc- I'm a homer? You're a homer! Wouldn't you like to be a homer too.  At least we move around.

In the vurnacular of the absurd, puhleeeaassse. How many US courses did you have the op to play everyday, noticing said consonance?

I'm just giving you shit fir grins. Love you man! BTW, your posts (both this thread and the divot thread) confirmed my air fare savings strategem.  

Sean, Excellent! You are correct.  The pic size is not of my doing. Their website is at fault.

[RJ_Daley]

The sad fact of the matter is, I haven't played a firm course, not overwatered all year.  The heat caused our super to poor the coals to it water wise to keep up with the stress of high play, and heat.  I don't blame him a bit.  But, we haven't had any real period of firm conditions all year.  I wish he'd turn the water off now that fall aeration has taken place, and he has top dressed and watered in some fert.   But, that ain't going to happen either.   I need to get some fall prairie golf in...  

[Dan Kelly]

Brown is "green," is it not?

Maybe this is a case where environmentalism could improve golf.

[JESII]

Who is prepared to play off 25% dead fairways for a couple of years in hopes of building the foundation for a healthy brown presentation in the year 2010?

[Gary Daughters]

JES,

I'm in.

What will happen agronomically between now and '10 to make this happen?

[Rich Goodale]

Adam

I don't remember ever calling you a "homer," certainly not on this thread, but come to think of it you are not only a homer but a serial homer!

As for your other point(s?) I don't really understand what you are trying to say.  Elucidate, compadre, por favor.

Rich

[JESII]

JES,

I'm in.

What will happen agronomically between now and '10 to make this happen?

Gary,

The 25% and the 2010 were pulled out of mid-air...but...I am certain the transition from overwatered to lean and mean and firm has its drawbacks. Some will not be palateable to a large percentage of players. I can tell you, the reward is so incredibly worth the cost (if the cost is in anyway close to the 2 year 25% deal I said above).

Superintendents would have a difficult time driving that initiative, it needs to come from management/membership. I imagine most players (me included) have little concept of what it would take to really migrate from today's standard maintenance presentation to the one that provides most frequent AND HEALTHY brown conditions here in the states.

[Adam Clayman]

Rihc, The daily differences in playing conditions should be one of those mysteries inherent in proper golf. That's why the constant irrigated version of the sport is an inferior form. My assumption that you have more time for golf, now, was the basis for my attempt to call homerism on you, after you sited the UK courses, and doubted it happens here in the good ole us of a.

 
Sully, That's not all you made up.
 Dead grass is not a result of weaning off the juice.


Firm conditions doesn't always mean brown grass. On a quality course the undualtions create the brownish patina on the high spots of the humps and bumps. Flatter courses have hardly a worry.
 

[JESII]

Adam,


Did you just say that turning off the faucet would not kill the grass at most of these courses?

[Rich Goodale]

Rihc, The daily differences in playing conditions should be one of those mysteries inherent in proper golf. That's why the constant irrigated version of the sport is an inferior form. My assumption that you have more time for golf, now, was the basis for my attempt to call homerism on you, after you sited the UK courses, and doubted it happens here in the good ole us of a.

 

Comprendo Adamo, however...

....I still think that the ability to green up in less than a day is a particularly British Isles characteristic, but I could be wrong.

Ricardo

[Adam Clayman]

Clearly weaning off and turning off are not the same. A couse that waters everyday, would do well to turn off the faucet every other day. Then see what happens. I'll tell you what happens. Every other day, you'll have shorter hitters reaching places they haven't golfed from in years. Some might even reach the occasional long par 4 with a fortunate bounce.

[Joe Hancock]

I played a course here in Michigan last week that was just about as ideal as an old course gets, IMO. It wasn't brown, but it was nearly flawless. It was dry, firm, reasonably fast and one could tell by the bentgrass population that the super and his staff have a handle on keeping things dry-er.

Jackson CC, if anyone gets the chance. Great use of spines in the greens as well.

Joe

[Brad Swanson]

Firm conditions doesn't always mean brown grass. On a quality course the undualtions create the brownish patina on the high spots of the humps and bumps. Flatter courses have hardly a worry.
 

I think this is what you are getting at Adam.







Cheers,
Brad