U.S. Mid-Am at Bandon Dunes

[TEPaul]

And I'll tell you another thing. The fact that Trip is 6 up again with 18 to play in this that might be only his second USGA championship final is too coincidental for words.

If he brings this one home and doesn't have something go awry along the way this afternoon like that otherworldly late charge of Woods in 1994 and he doesn't hear from Woods by phone or email congratulating him this time I would be both shocked and disheartened.

This is the material of legendary and odd golf stories. Did you know that Kuehne has said many many times if he hadn't been nipped by Woods like that in the US Amateur finals in '94 he DEFINITELY would've turned pro. It was that event that made him decide to be a iifelong amateur putting him right in the position he is in as we speak.

This would be some kind of Nu Nu Nu poetic justice and  redemption for Triperoo.

GO KUEHNE, YOU MAH MAN! BRING IT ON HOME FELLA!

[Garland Bayley]

Tom,

I suspect Trip is not playing another Tger Woods this afternoon, so I doubt we will see history repeat.

[George Pazin]

I followed Trip for a few holes during the 2003 Am. It is bizarre to me how far he hits it with such a normal, almost easy, swing.

I'm pretty sure he sold his soul.

 

It's even more bizarre to me that if you teach, you're a pro, but not if you coach. I would think - perhaps incorrectly, I don't know - that most college coaches are far better golfers, with much more time to practice, than most club pros or driving range teaching pros.

Someday - perhaps the day after Bill Gates wills me a portion of his estate - I will set up my own Mid Am competition, but I'll only invite the people I like.

[TEPaul]

"Tom,
I suspect Trip is not playing another Tger Woods this afternoon, so I doubt we will see history repeat."

My recollection was Kuehne played OK on the final 18 in 1994. It was just a matter of Woods pulling some heroics that were remarkable. I don't remember Kuehne exactly beating himself in '94.

But that kind of come from behind heroics is not the only way one loses golf matches. Most of the time a front runner just beats himself somehow.

But you're right, if Kuehne plays OK with a six up lead going into the final 18 I doubt a Whittaker would pull a Woods on him probably because he's not really capable of it.

But who knows---this is the finals of the US Mid-Am Championship. Believe me, guys who get in that positon can make birdies more easily than most of us realize.

GO TRIPEROO, YOU MAH MAN. BRING IT ON HOME FELLA!!

[TEPaul]

I'm really not too sure why so many on here seem to mention the fact that some people who play amateur golf are able to practice and play more than others are.

In the world of USGGA amateur golf rules and regs and criterion, amateur status has virtually nothing whatsoever to do with how much or how little anyone plays or practices or has the opportunity to.

These days it's really just a matter not taking any remuneration for actually PLAYING competitive golf

I knew a guy in Long Island who always worked for a Wall Street firm and he basically never went to Wall Street. He was basically just payed by the firm to play golf with people.

But his income was not exactly determined by what he did on the golf course with his game. He was a very good player but he was not taking money by trading his reputation as a golfer.

[George Pazin]

Tom, I think most simply view it as one of the defining differences as to why some are considered pros, and others aren't, such as a coach versus a teacher.

I suppose if everyone understand the reasoning behind why a teaching pro is a pro, while a coach is not, it might be clearer. I certainly don't understand the distinction.

[Chris Cupit]

How have the guys been scoring in match play?  Under par or over?  

A little caveat on Match Play "scoring".  It is not nearly the same as stroke play--the scores recorded on the match play card are very "generous".

For example----player A has hit the green and has a birdie putt from 15 feet.  His opponent has messed the hole up and his PAR chip rolls 20 feet by the hole and player B then concedes the hole.  Scores recorded are Player A--Birdie 3, Player B--Bogey 5

You do not record the "likely" score for either player.  

[Brent Hutto]

To all appearances, anything associated with the industry of collegiate sports (which is de jure an amateur endeavor, any contrary evidence aside) is treated as sacrosanct by the USGA. If you accept the modern big-time college athlete as an exemplar of amateurism it makes a certain degree of sense to treat his coach as a special case even if someone engaged in the same work activities in any other setting would be termed a professional.

It's simply a tiny bit of the edifice of cognitive dissonance that our society erects to prop up an idealized nineteenth-century concept of scholastic sport. No hard feelings to the guys who take that opening and run with it. Maybe playing in the mid-am somewhat dulls the pain of all the recruiting, fundraising (sorry, I mean "development") and community and alumni butt kissing to which a coach must devote his life nowadays.

[Garland Bayley]

How have the guys been scoring in match play?  Under par or over?  

A little caveat on Match Play "scoring".  It is not nearly the same as stroke play--the scores recorded on the match play card are very "generous".

For example----player A has hit the green and has a birdie putt from 15 feet.  His opponent has messed the hole up and his PAR chip rolls 20 feet by the hole and player B then concedes the hole.  Scores recorded are Player A--Birdie 3, Player B--Bogey 5

You do not record the "likely" score for either player.  

Chris,

You need to take a refresher course in handicap reporting. Of course you report the likely score for each player. The handicap manual instructs you to do just that.

A separate question is whether they record the scores that way on the website. Who knows what they do there?

[wsmorrison]

7 up after 21 holes

[BCrosby]

TEP -

At bottom, the the "Mid-Am" concept may not make a lot of sense. The idea is to offer competitive opportunities to guys who work full time. The original notion was to weed out college players don't have to work.

The problem is that there a lot of working stiffs who, for one reason or another, play golf full time. Many play as much golf as college players.

But the whole point of a "Mid-Am" was to cut out those kinds of players. That's what the age limit was supposed to do.

I can't think of a good way to fix things. I have no idea how you would draft a workable rule to limit the field to working stiffs who didn't play golf every day. Even worse, how would you enforce it?

The alternatives are to live with the flawed mid-am we have (which is not such a terrible thing) or to dump the mid-am and have just the US Am.

Bob

[Chris Cupit]

How have the guys been scoring in match play?  Under par or over?  

A little caveat on Match Play "scoring".  It is not nearly the same as stroke play--the scores recorded on the match play card are very "generous".

For example----player A has hit the green and has a birdie putt from 15 feet.  His opponent has messed the hole up and his PAR chip rolls 20 feet by the hole and player B then concedes the hole.  Scores recorded are Player A--Birdie 3, Player B--Bogey 5

You do not record the "likely" score for either player.  

Chris,

You need to take a refresher course in handicap reporting. Of course you report the likely score for each player. The handicap manual instructs you to do just that.

A separate question is whether they record the scores that way on the website. Who knows what they do there?

Garland,

I am well aware of how to report scores for handicap purposes.  And, you are right that when recording scores for your handicap you record the score you likely would have made if you do not finish a hole--you do not automatically take "the MAX" for what your handicap allows.

BUT, I also just returned from Bandon Dunes where I officiated both stroke play rounds, three match play rounds including Trip Kuehne's round of 32 and round of 16 matches--so I know what I'm talking about in this case.  

Scores recorded on the USGA's website for "Match Play Scoring" are NOT what you would record for handicap purposes.  

I guess I should have been more specific and said "Match Play Scoring for USGA Championships"

BTW It was a blast to referee for Trip's matches--he's quite a golfer

[wsmorrison]

8 up after 26.  Getting close.

[BCrosby]

Wayne -

It would be a treat to see Tripp and Tiger play together in The Masters next spring.

Bob

[wsmorrison]

Bob,

I'll say.  If I head down again, as delightful a host as Mr. and Mrs. Young were, we'd have to stay a lot closer!  Are you coming up for a visit anytime soon?  Weather and golf courses are perfect!

8 up with 9 to play.

[Doug Wright]

TE,

Your man Trip closed out his opponent 9 and 7. Congrats to him--it's been a long wait.

[Garland Bayley]

...

Garland,

I am well aware of how to report scores for handicap purposes.  And, you are right that when recording scores for your handicap you record the score you likely would have made if you do not finish a hole--you do not automatically take "the MAX" for what your handicap allows.

BUT, I also just returned from Bandon Dunes where I officiated both stroke play rounds, three match play rounds including Trip Kuehne's round of 32 and round of 16 matches--so I know what I'm talking about in this case.  

Scores recorded on the USGA's website for "Match Play Scoring" are NOT what you would record for handicap purposes.  

I guess I should have been more specific and said "Match Play Scoring for USGA Championships"

BTW It was a blast to referee for Trip's matches--he's quite a golfer

Sorry Chris,

I guess I misunderstood the gist of your post. You were pointing out how the scoring is posted on the web, which I didn't realize.

[Chris Cupit]

No prob Garland--with Trip's scores I didn't have to be "too generous" anyway.  

 

[Joe Bentham]

Trying to come up with a medal score for a match is silly no matter how you do it.

[Chris Cupit]

Yep.

[Sean Leary]

There is a great interview on the usga midam website with Kuehne.  He says that the Masters will be his last tournament.  Worth a read...

www.usmidam.org

[igrowgrass]

There is a great interview on the usga midam website with Kuehne.  He says that the Masters will be his last tournament.  Worth a read...

www.usmidam.org

He makes it seem so easy to give up competitive golf.

[JSlonis]

I'd be very surprised if he didn't play anymore competitive golf after the Master's.  

[JohnV]

...

Garland,

I am well aware of how to report scores for handicap purposes.  And, you are right that when recording scores for your handicap you record the score you likely would have made if you do not finish a hole--you do not automatically take "the MAX" for what your handicap allows.

BUT, I also just returned from Bandon Dunes where I officiated both stroke play rounds, three match play rounds including Trip Kuehne's round of 32 and round of 16 matches--so I know what I'm talking about in this case.  

Scores recorded on the USGA's website for "Match Play Scoring" are NOT what you would record for handicap purposes.  

I guess I should have been more specific and said "Match Play Scoring for USGA Championships"

BTW It was a blast to referee for Trip's matches--he's quite a golfer

Sorry Chris,

I guess I misunderstood the gist of your post. You were pointing out how the scoring is posted on the web, which I didn't realize.

Garland, when the next stroke for a player is conceded, we add one in reporting the score so if a guy lays 4 and the opponent concedes his next stroke he made a 5.

When a hole is conceded, we add one for each player and report the score.  So, if player A drives it in the fairway and then player B hits 3 balls out of bounds and concedes, A would get a 2 and B would get a 7 (3 swings, 3 penalties and one more).  Obviously A probably isn't going to make 2 on a par 5, but he gets credit for that on the scoring record.

It really gets strange when a player does something stupid and incurs a loss of hole penalty.  Usually that is just recorded as the player who wins the hole gets his current number of strokes + 1 and the other player gets 1 more than that unless he was already higher than that.

[Steve Kline]

Two interesting thing in Trip's interview -

1. He said the Masters MIGHT be his last tournament and

2. He said he didn't like the fact that were more than 100 reinstated amateurs in the field this week. That's about 40% of the field.