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Mark Pearce

Re:What are the Slam Dunks?
« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2007, 11:57:07 AM »
Jason,

If controversy as to whether a course is great disqualifies it as a "Slam Dunk" (and I think you're right, it should) then don't Winged Foot, Augusta and Oakmont all come off too?

Frankly I don't see the point in identifying a list of courses that EVERYONE agrees are great.  I love the fact that I think Muirfield's great and others here don't like it.  Would there be any point in a list of paintings that EVERYONE would agree were great?  I'd be more interested in the most controversial ones.  What are the courses where opinions are most divided?

As to this thread, I'm not sure what purpose it serves.
In July I will be riding two stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity, including Mont Ventoux for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Garland Bayley

Re:What are the Slam Dunks?
« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2007, 12:00:35 PM »
You took out Stanley Thompson?  ???  :'(  :'(
What did I say that offended you?  ???
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Kalen Braley

Re:What are the Slam Dunks?
« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2007, 03:07:43 PM »
Huck,

I think 15 is a very solid hole, and I'm with you on 16 and 17...but 18 as nothing special?  You've got to be crazy.  :o  ;)

18 was one of my favorites on the course and its a damn unique par 5 with one two of the most gnarly fairway and greenside bunkers that I've ever seen.  And while it can be reached in two with two excellent shots, it still requires 3 well placed solid shots to be on the green in regulation.

Note I said I personally think 18 is pretty cool; I can just understand it being given a "nothing special" tag sooner than 16 or 17.

So if anyone is crazy, it's my friend Mike.

I just tend to understand craziness more than others.

In any case, 18 is a difficult hole for sure.... but in terms of the world's great golf courses - which this is a discussion of - I can just see someone saying it doesn't stand out.  In the end it's typically a layup type drive (just stay right of blowout), then whatever one wants on 2nd shot (just stay straight), the whatever's left on the third (just miss front death bunker).  While the bunkers are fabulous and the green is very cool and the shots required are all difficult, there's little strategy involved - it's all quite penal.  So if strategy is one's bag, then that whole could be given the "nothing special" tag in the context of the world's great courses.

Note I don't nceessarily agree with all that, I just don't find it completely crazy.

TH

Good point Huck...I read the nothing special bit and overlooked the pretty cool tag...my bad  8)

I don't however think 18 is a penal hole per se.  While the tee shot is demanding, I think the strategy lies in getting as close to that bunker as you can to have a better line into the green.  If you go far to the right its more difficult to know where to go.  

I think the green can be hit in two by long hitters.  I hit a 3 wood off the tee and laid up with a 5 wood and only had 80 yards left..and I'm no where close to being a long hitter.  Yes it was playing downwind that day.

The real genius of the hole is the approach in as there are options-a-plenty.  Sure the nasty bunker short and right must be avoided, but one can play a runner into the green, they can play it off the left bank, they can play it high and try to spin it, or even intentionally leave it short of the green as its difficult to hold that green when playing downwind.

« Last Edit: October 09, 2007, 03:08:09 PM by Kalen Braley »

Tom Huckaby

Re:What are the Slam Dunks?
« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2007, 03:19:08 PM »
Kalen - that all works for me.  But one not so attuned to strategic choices might assess it just as I did.  And if they did, I wouldn't argue too strenuously, that's all.

TH

Jason Topp

Re:What are the Slam Dunks?
« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2007, 03:30:15 PM »
Jason,

If controversy as to whether a course is great disqualifies it as a "Slam Dunk" (and I think you're right, it should) then don't Winged Foot, Augusta and Oakmont all come off too?


I believe there should be no "reasonable dispute" about whether the course is a slam dunk.  

With the rather large caveat that I have not played any of the three courses:

Although I don't like how Augusta has changed, I do not think one can reasonably dispute that it is a great course in its current form.  

I cannot imagine someone taking a similar position on Oakmont, particularly after George Pazin's series last spring.

I am less familiar with Winged Foot so I cannot really comment on that one.

George Pazin

Re:What are the Slam Dunks?
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2007, 03:45:01 PM »
What reasonable person has said Muirfield isn't a slam dunk?
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Matthew Hunt

Re:What are the Slam Dunks?
« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2007, 03:46:43 PM »
Ran probably if you read his interview!

Mark Pearce

Re:What are the Slam Dunks?
« Reply #32 on: October 10, 2007, 04:13:22 AM »
I'd be tempted to argue that anyone seriously suggesting Muirfield isn't a great course isn't a reasonable person but the joy of these things is that reasonable people can, occasionally, take entirely unreasonable positions.

I haven't played it but I've read enough and seen enough on TV that I have significant doubt as to whether Augusta, in its current embodiment, is a great course.  It certainly isn't a "slam dunk" for me.
In July I will be riding two stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity, including Mont Ventoux for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

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