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Gib_Papazian

Fazio's Lido? Shadow Creek fully digested.
« on: August 08, 2002, 03:50:41 PM »
It has been several weeks since Emperor Tony, Adam and a lost Armenian dove headlong into the plastic kingdom of decadence, excess, voyeurism, gambling and gluttony.

There were no puritans in this threesome. Sometimes, a measure of sin can exercise demons and cleanse the soul. Though we escaped with our portfolios intact, I was careful not to look back at the Strip after takeoff. One last glance out the window and seat 14C would have arrived back at SFO as a pillar of salt.

Since then, I have gotten several E-mails soliciting my opinion on Shadow Creek - one even implied that my relative silence proved that:
A. I liked it.
B. I’m not man enough to admit it because Naccarato and I are part of an anti-Fazio conspiracy.

The truth is that the road has been long, eventful and rocky of late - leaving little time for my GCA addiction for which there is no methadone. The withdrawl symptoms have been killing me.

To begin, the entire Shadow Creek experience is one of those rare instances that defies the simple evaluation of a golf course. It also answers the oft posed question that if a good golf course were located next to an ugly industrial park or waste dump, would it still be as good?

Like Pine Valley and Augusta, it all depends on how well you hide the outside world. Shadow Creek certainly does that.  

I arrived a night before Tommy and Adam (with his charming beau) in a wild desert thunderstorm. It has been two decades since my last experiment with hallucinogenic mushrooms, but as the rain pelted the airplane and bolts of lightning lit the sky, perhaps I was a bit more susceptible to the illusions created by the puppet masters.

It began at Caesars Palace, but could as easily have been New York New York, Paris, the Carribean with a shipload of Buccaneers, or a pyramid blasting a cylinder of light into space.    

They lure you in slowly. An intimate dinner in an open air Italian Bistro with fine Chianti - ancient statues line the plaza with an impossibly beautiful fountain as a centerpiece. Tourists mill about in front of shops full of European clothes and jewelry.

Everything appears authentic, with not a detail missing but the pigeon droppings and promiscuous Italian men whistling at beautiful women strutting by, pretending to be offended but secretly flattered.

It all seemed so real, staring into the eyes of a woman I first met 25 years ago on a train in Europe. For a moment, I forgot we were seated in the wing of a gambling casino.

But everything is an illusion, a mirage in the middle of an angry  scorching desert. The Italian sky above the bistro is a lighted ceiling, and the hint of Mediterranean sea wafting in the air has been pumped into the ventilation system.

It is nice to pretend for a short while and wonder what might have been - but trying to recapture a feeling from another lifetime against  such a fantastical backdrop is a path guaranteed to end in crushing disappointment when the gargoyle of reality reasserts its ugly scowl.

For you see, Las Vegas is not really a city, but a breathing organism  in equal measure chameleon and parasite. Its roots are shallow, a series of enormous props built up and torn down on The Strip, staffed by carneys and freak show barkers in polyester tuxedos.

And so it is with Shadow Creek - a perfect reflection of its soulless environment - a fantastical creation, an engineering miracle, a wondrous counterpoint to the smarmy cesspool of the casino culture . . . but still only a prop.

Ruthlessly efficient and antiseptic, the Shadow Creek experience begins in a stretch limousine with a guest list. Adam’s beau was not pre-approved and left behind in the driveway. There is nothing relaxed or left to chance - a well rehearsed golfing ballet for special guests only. No exceptions.


The ride down an ugly freeway does not look promising, especially when the driver turns off towards a dusty railroad yard, surrounded by hopeful “For Sale” signs in front of sun scorched parcels of flat sand and cactus.

A tiny and innocuous street sign points the way, a short stretch called “Shadow Creek Lane” that ends at a simple unmarked gate staffed by a severe looking guard. “Open Sesame” and in an instant, reality disappears.

Turning the corner, I suppose I was expecting something garish, cloying and over-the-top, but it looks like an understated residence converted into a  clubhouse. The locker room flows off the main building awkwardly, as if it evolved as an afterthought.

No formalized bag drop or bleached blond greeters with headsets. Just a small driveway leading to a modest entrance.

Inside, a soothing and intimate seating area surrounded by wooden lockers. Each has a name affixed to it, which would normally not bother me, except that a great effort has been made to highlight the list of celebrities who Shadow Creek counts as members. It feels forced - a clumsy demonstration of exclusivity to the plebeians.

We were met by the head professional, as nice a man as one could imagine and an excellent player who ascended from Old Del Monte to Spyglass before being lured to Las Vegas.

He seems calm and at ease, with an easy smile, yet looks can be deceiving. Later on, a delivery truck comes barreling down the access road and in an instant he is on the radio, barking to the guards that the offending driver be escorted off the premises and ordered never to return.

There is no question who is in charge at Shadow Creek.
                      
Each foursome hits balls on their own private practice tee - with new Titleists. The turf is perfect, the targets beautifully defined. I asked what our tee time was: “Whenever we’re ready,” was the response.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:08 PM by -1 »

Gib_Papazian

Re: Fazio's Lido? Shadow Creek fully digested.
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2002, 03:51:08 PM »
Part #2

My first reaction on the course was that Shadow Creek bears a striking resemblance to Sherwood. Both require a suspension of disbelief because of the strange environmental dichotomy. My body feels wicked heat, yet my eyes see a soothing creek meandering down a fairway lined with pine trees as if in Lake Tahoe.

Perhaps the illusion plays better in the winter, where the snow-covered peaks in the background give a different visual cue.

The other observation that struck me as we played the golf course is the feeling of absolute isolation of nearly every hole. The golf course unfolds like 18 separate vignettes, although stylistically it blends together seamlessly - so much so that I have to concentrate hard to recall the sequence of holes.

Sometimes this can be perceived as a negative - implying that each hole is not as memorable as Pine Valley for example, but then there is a course like Chechessee Creek which is astoundingly good but flows along with the same common thread.

One aspect that drew attention to itself -at least in my mind - was the sensation of playing each hole in a separate canyon or culvert. It seems like every green complex was set in an intimate, tree-covered amphitheater, necessitating a walk straight up a hill to the cart path.                        

Shadow Creek constantly wriggles, changing direction so often that by the third hole, I was completely disoriented. It felt much like driving down the highways on Florida, with no landmarks in the distance to set your bearings - only dense foliage mile after mile.

Steve Wynn was apparently intent on making each hole its own presentation, but I wonder if the whole thing might have worked better if, after pushing up mountains of dirt on the perimeter of the property, they  had thought about creating some meandering internal ridges for the holes to play over and around instead of individual valleys.

Because of this, it seems like there was a lack of internal hazards and contour in the fairways. Bunkers were set at the perimeter of the playing areas most of the time, clearly defining the preferred line  to the hole.

However, because everything is presented in such a carefully arranged manner, the golf course has an antiseptic quality - a perfection that mirrors the Italian plaza at Caesars Palace. Perfect, but so flawless as to seem unreal.

Except for the trees. Thousands of them. It is said that Steve Wynn decided to triple the tree plantings on a whim, thinking the course looked too sparse. Yes, it is tree covered, which diverts attention away from the sensation of confinement and artificiality.

Oddly enough, for such a meticulously planned golf course, some of the trees are clearly blocking a portion of the putting surface, and in two cases are directly along the line of play in front of a bunker. In an effort to look as realistic as possible, perhaps Steve Wynn and Fazio purposely put in couple of Green Committee gaffes.                

It is not surprising that my favorite hole on the golf course has the quirkiest feature. The 5th hole is a long par-4 with an elevated green with an entrance divided between a ramp on the left that nudges the ball onto the green, and a severe chute to the right.

Hit you approach one inch short and right and the ball is deposited to the bottom of a 30 foot fall-off, leaving a blind wedge back up the hill. Great stuff - and a fun feature for the #1 handicap hole.

But for the most part, there is a lack of clever feature work or unexpected surprises. It seems the goal was to create something of astounding beauty, and to that end Fazio did a wonderful job. It is simple, and in truth, remarkably restrained.  

Is it full of pointless eye candy? No, everything is there for a purpose, I just prefer more strategic content. It seems designed as an idyllic walk in the park not intended to stretch anyone’s intellect.
 
Given the same opportunity, I shudder to think what Ted Robinson would have produced.

That said, the cliff top waterfall 17th looked like a set from the movie “Blue Lagoon.”  A hopelessly phony and out of place architectural non-sequitur given the restraint of the prior 16 holes. But even so, it was breathtakingly gorgeous and I’ll be the first to admit it. Steve Wynn is a showman, and there was no way he could resist the big finish.

I walked off the 17th tee and pulled aside the shrubbery behind the back markers. It summed up the wonder of Shadow Creek in one look. On one side, a horribly ugly wasteland of filthy railroad cars and a factory belching smoke into the scorching afternoon heat.

Now turn around and look down at a sparkling pond, with a cascading waterfall misting the walkway to a tiny green. We were told that Michael Jackson would often sit on a rock in front of the falls and stare for hours at a time.

I averted my eyes under the theory that because nobody is quite sure what causes pedophilia, it was best not to take chances.

The 18th hole is certainly eye-catching, a reachable par-5 over a creek-fed pond. Strategically, it works well and visually, the whole look is stunning. The clubhouse appears  simple and tasteful, with nothing that detracts from the hole.

Strangely, the only flashy element on the property is Steve Wynn’s house - an enormous structure on the far side of the 18th fairway with golden roof tiles and a garden area with not a leaf out of place.  

Naccarato, Adam and I were trying to come up with an unqualified evaluation in the limo back to the hotel, but it was difficult to put our collective fingers on exactly what we thought.

Taken just as a golf course, it is not in the class of NGLA, Shinnecock or Pine Valley, mostly because there is no escaping the feeling of unreality and detachment from the environment.

Yet for what it is, an engineering miracle of Lido-esque proportions,  Shadow Creek almost belongs in its own category. If it does not represent a truly great golf course, it stands as a demonstration what is possible with a genius architect and unlimited money.

And isn’t that what Las Vegas is really about?

New York New York is not really Manhattan, Caesars Palace is not really Italy, but the pastrami and pasta taste almost as good.

Shadow Creek may not really be a great golf course in the purest  sense of the word, but it is a great creation and completely unlike anything else in the world. To that end, it deserves all the kudos it gets and more.              
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:08 PM by -1 »

Ran Morrissett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Fazio's Lido? Shadow Creek fully digested.
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2002, 04:29:00 PM »
What has always puzzled me is the desire to have each hole walled off from the other. After all, the course has limited (!) play, especially in the early days and after spending  X millions to make the property so pretty, why not allow the golfer to soak in long views (at least here and there) across the course? Wouldn't one's appreciation of what was accomplished here only increase with such diverse views?

Gib, if if it was Wynn who "on a whim" planted the trees, perhaps Fazio had other thoughts in mind?

How interesting where the green complexes/putting surfaces? Is it strategic? Are there any world class holes? Sounds like it is your favorite Fazio that you've seen to date?

Cheers,
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:08 PM by -1 »

brad_miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Fazio's Lido? Shadow Creek fully digested.
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2002, 05:30:17 PM »
Like TPaul's MM thread, just one of the Great things about GCA, TY Gib.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Fazio's Lido? Shadow Creek fully digested.
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2002, 05:41:06 PM »
Gib:
Interesting write up.  I knew that once you played it yo would have this type of reaction.  Its an "experience" unlike others.  I have to laugh over the last few years when people on this web site would comment on Shadow Creek without playing it and without understanding it.

I get a little bored with 10, 11 & 12 and 17 after you play it a few times is not very interesting.

Ran:  The green sites are not that interesting in fact I can't even think of one green that I could mention or note and I have played SC a number of times.  The green speeds are around 9.  As for the views, you have to remember that Steve Wynn has an eye disease (can't remember the name) which is extreme tunnel vision.  The views are down the fairways at the greens only allowing the mountain tops to come into play.   The course is pretty enough that each hole is its own picture and I don't think that vast views would add anything and in fact may distract.

Here is a tidbit not many people know.  MGM/Mirage recently signed Fazio to build a second course on the property next door.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Fazio's Lido? Shadow Creek fully digested.
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2002, 06:03:19 PM »
Gib,
Nice write-up!  But Shadow Creek is in a different league then Sherwood.  Wouldn't you agree?
Mark
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike_Cirba

Re: Fazio's Lido? Shadow Creek fully digested.
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2002, 06:08:54 PM »
Gib;

Thanks for sharing your experiences in such a delightfully written and informative way.  I'm not sure how well anyone can judge a course from pictures, but now I also have to wonder and worry how well I can judge a course from the mental images I have from your exquisitely-drawn prose!  :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

TEPaul

Re: Fazio's Lido? Shadow Creek fully digested.
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2002, 06:19:11 PM »
Gib:

You are a marvelous writer! That's a riveting article, informative and very entertaining.

For some reason when you said that every hole at SC is in its own constructed valley, that struck a chord in me. Is that really true? I don't know if I'd like that if it were so.

There's a wonderful property in Virginia--just tons of natural landform hole formations that are in valleys that Kye and I were looking at and in the process I think it came to the both of us that although they were all wonderful they could not all be used for a golf routing as it got to be too much--you just had to run some ridges or go from one to another for variety and other golf challenges!

You know that violent desert thunderstorm that you flew through coming into Vegas. Fazio said that's Wynn stage setting too. The violent desert thunderstorm button is rarely pressed but it's the last button on the left in his righthand drawer!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

GeoffreyC

Re: Fazio's Lido? Shadow Creek fully digested.
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2002, 06:43:18 PM »
Great stuff Gib.  I enjoyed the pictures you painted with your summary.  I now think I need to see Shadow Creek at some point in time.

It sounds much more like a unique experience then intense golf.  Is the actual playing of golf better then say Rustic Canyon?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

A_Clay_Man

Re: Fazio's Lido? Shadow Creek fully digested.
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2002, 07:26:57 PM »
Ran- One of the interesting features about the greens was that they were all different, shapes & sizes, and Each had some movement, but not too huge.

Tepaul- When Gib describes each hole as in it's own valley, don't confuse that with containment. What I mean is it wasn't golf in a half pipe, like Bali Hate.

I can understand why the intimacy is important to those high end celebrity types, so for that justification the seperation works. There is one spot where another hole is visible I think it's the third hole where a large pond seperates two fairways. The signifigance of the pond is that that's where G.B #41 fishes, when in town.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

David Wigler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Fazio's Lido? Shadow Creek fully digested.
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2002, 07:51:22 PM »
My dear Armenian friend,

I long ago gave up matching wits with you as it is a battle I cannot win.  Your prose is (As always) elegant.  I must ask one question though - Did you like it?  You know that I adore the course and after playing it, I am sure you can see why.

I did not promise you that you would find the course intelectually compelling, only unique and truly enjoyable.  A 10 on the Brad Klein Walk-In-The-Park scale, if not on the Doak rating scale.  Did I lie?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
And I took full blame then, and retain such now.  My utter ignorance in not trumpeting a course I have never seen remains inexcusable.
Tom Huckaby 2/24/04

A_Clay_Man

Re: Fazio's Lido? Shadow Creek fully digested.
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2002, 07:51:32 PM »
Almost forgot, Great piece Gib. Every word truth.

Sheryl read it and her first response was that "you are the standard by which all others should be measured".

 :-*
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Coral_Ridge

Re: Fazio's Lido? Shadow Creek fully digested.
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2002, 08:16:43 PM »
How can one play Shadow Creek?  Do you stay at one of Wynn's hotels and make a tee time?  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tommy_Naccarato

Re: Fazio's Lido? Shadow Creek fully digested.
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2002, 10:19:14 PM »
I don't think anyone could have written this any better then Gib has, and I can only cowardly mirror everything he has written. (make that "masterfully written.")

I can't begin to tell all of you how hard it has been to write about this golf course/club/experience because I didn't want to come off as being...well.....me. In fact, I have tried more the 12 times to sit down and write my thoughts. I still am having problems. I am not a fan of this type of golf architecture and I would be more apt to call it landscape architecture. (As in the verse of creating a park) something I'm sure Mr. Fazio will no doubt enjoy hearing.

I can only hope this may suffice. Shadow Creek does not allow cameras, so while sitting in McCarron Airport, I drew a few of the features and holes that I felt warranted description simply because in all of the Shadow Creek posts in the past, no one has ever really talked about any of the golf holes, only about the degree of earthmovement, stature of the facility and how it appeared so magically out of nothing. So if you can pardon a horrible hand, I will try to let it do the posting this time.

This drawing is what I saw while looking from the very right side of #3 looking across the fairway and pond over to #4. It isn't in any regards the same, but the feel is very reminscent of view from the tee at #15, looking across the pond to #16 at Pine Valley. And make no mistake about it, these holes are not even close to the degree of architecture that exists at Pine Valley. What impressed me most though was Fazio was able to capture the feel of the look. Isn't it odd though that for a man that doesn't have a respect for Classic courses, is clearly trying to capture them here? (Could this be another classic Fazio contradiction? Nahhhh!) Also, this is the only spot where you can see more then more then just one golf hole. Why doesn't Fazio do more stuff like this??? (or maybe he does for an extra cost?)

I can say that in no uncertain terms that this is, in fact, the best hole at Pine Vall......Opps, I mean Shadow Creek! It was refreshing to see Mr. Fazio and his associates utilize the CLASSIC look and feel of Pine Valley #5, only the hole plays much shorter, but still gives you that certain fear while on standing on the tee.

While the hole once again doesn't neccessarily look like Pine Valley #5, it certainly has the feel, and that is certainly a very good thing. However, I could only imagine an emulation or two of the greens at Pine Valley to really liven it up.






« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Fazio's Lido? Shadow Creek fully digested.
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2002, 07:29:22 AM »
Mark Fine,

I agree, Sherwood and Shadow Creek are light years apart.

Tommy Naccarato,

When I have some time, I'll scan some pictures of Shadow Creek and send them to you for posting.

Gib,

I'm in basic agreement with you, Shadow Creek is a marvelous accomplishment and a deserving golf course.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Fazio's Lido? Shadow Creek fully digested.
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2002, 08:08:35 AM »
Gib,

Excellent piece, very worthy of publication....is this piece headed for the SM Times, too?  It certainly could be.


Unless I was comped somehow (and I ain't no high roller), I'm still not spending $600+ to play there ($500 +hotel room).  $295+ caddie fees is my personal highest, by far, at a course a little more worthy, PB.  My 2nd highest spend will come later this month on another course more worthy.

I certainly could spend that much and not be "broken" by it, but I can't spend that much on a round of golf that isn't one of the best in the world.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

David Wigler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Fazio's Lido? Shadow Creek fully digested.
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2002, 05:19:44 AM »
Gib,

You may want to let this die and that is why you did not respond.  I have been on vacation for four days and did not have my computer.  Did you like the course?  Ignore the rating but I would love to know where you put it on Dr. Klein's "Walk in the Park" standard?  If you are more comfortable, write me off the board.  

I will keep my rating private, but Shadow Creek, IMO, is a bulletproof 10 on the "Walk in the park" scale.

Coral Ridge,

It used to be fairly hard to get on.  Not that Wynn has sold all of his hotels (He bought back DI) to MGM group, all you have to do is stay at any of the old Mirage or MGM properties and you can make a tee time.  Last I checked, the package was $500 for room for a night, limo back and forth to the course, 18 holes of golf and lunch.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
And I took full blame then, and retain such now.  My utter ignorance in not trumpeting a course I have never seen remains inexcusable.
Tom Huckaby 2/24/04

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Fazio's Lido? Shadow Creek fully digested.
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2002, 06:34:21 AM »
David,

I thought the $500 didn't include the room, but does it include a caddie?  Can you play twice in one day?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

David Wigler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Fazio's Lido? Shadow Creek fully digested.
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2002, 06:56:25 AM »
Found on Bellagio's web site:

A limited number of tee times are available Monday through Thursday at Shadow Creek for $500 for guests of any of the MGM MIRAGE resorts (The Mirage, MGM Grand, Bellagio, Treasure Island, the Golden Nugget, New York-New York, or Primm Valley Resort) in Las Vegas. Limousine transportation to and from the course, a golf cart and a caddie are included in the green fee.

http://www.bellagiolasvegas.com/



« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
And I took full blame then, and retain such now.  My utter ignorance in not trumpeting a course I have never seen remains inexcusable.
Tom Huckaby 2/24/04

cdharris

Caesars Palace course?
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2002, 02:27:24 PM »
I haven't played Shadow Creek but several of my high-roller friends have and their asessement is that it is just a beautiful showplace, but not necessarily a great course.  However, they have been talking lately about the new course that Ceasars Palace built, which is even more exclusive and expensive than Shadow Creek.  You absolutely cannot play unless you are a very big gambler at Caesars.  Supposedly, Sports Illustrated did a short piece on it and Caesars would not give any information or let them take any photos.  SI had to fly over in a plane and take an aeriel shot.  I looked on the Caesars web site and could not even find a golf course mentioned.  Does anyone here know anything about this couse?  Is it for real or just a rumor?  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Fazio's Lido? Shadow Creek fully digested.
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2002, 02:30:22 PM »
cdharris:


Shadow Creek, IMHO, is not only an amazing "wonder" (how could such a lush pine forest 'grow' out of such barren desert wasteland?), but it is also a very fine golf course.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

SPDB1

Re: Fazio's Lido? Shadow Creek fully digested.
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2002, 03:14:27 PM »
cdharris:

The course you are thinking of is Rees' Cascata. I have not played it, but some on here have, and if you use the search function there may even be commentary on it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

John_D._Bernhardt

Re: Fazio's Lido? Shadow Creek fully digested.
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2002, 08:49:44 PM »
Gib, the time you took to write of your experience was worth the wait. I spoke to Tommy several weeks ago and got the  gist of the groups reaction. Your comments reflected the best of this site. The skill and prose you chose in describing this course as unique to the golfing world as Las Vegas is to urban planning in brought a feeling that previously only Herbert Warren Wind provided to this lover of golf architecture. Well Done my friend for this is not the course which this site was built upon but a course that is significant to the greater  world or golf and landscape architecture.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Fazio's Lido? Shadow Creek fully digested.
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2002, 06:34:04 AM »
cdharris,

I think the exclusiveness of Cascata has loosened as has Shadow Creek's.  I think the same $500 that will get you on SC will get you on Cascata while staying at a Park Place Casino.

It was also a previous Aerial of the Day, if you want to see it for yourself from above, and see a picture featured in the GD article contained in this thread:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/YaBB.cgi?board=GD1&action=display&num=1018531398

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Fazio's Lido? Shadow Creek fully digested.
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2002, 12:11:23 PM »
Gib.

Wonderful stuff, but did Adam really take a 'beau' with him?

Bob
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »