Will a course ever surpass PV???

[JESII]

One of the most amazing shots I have seen was out of that left greenside bunker on #3. I was a young kid down there watching the finals and a guy had it down there in a deep footprint with the pin back left...well he goes down in there and hits the hell out of it and ball pops up nice and high and soft and lands right there on the apron and trickles down over the edge of the hole to about 4 feet...just amazing!

I think we're on the same page that it is a really unique place and one of the unique things was their non-raking of the bunkers much at all...

[Mike_Cirba]

Thanks Sully...I knew you'd see the light.  

[TEPaul]

Sometimes it's hard to know where you're coming from young Sullivan---Pennsylvania State Mid-Amateur repeat champion.

So, I'll just ask you----which do you prefer for Pine Valley's sand areas---the way it was back then when that guy hit that great shot out of a footprint on #3 or the way it is now?

[JESII]

TEP,

I don't think it matters a lick...and like you said earlier...it's only a function of money in my eyes, and if they want to spend it, it's fine with me.


By the way, you should have seen the halve Chet got from me on that hole in our Saturday morning match...this was a doozy for all time...


MC,

I just can't see the light on the bunker maintenance issue effecting the courses status in the rankings magazines one iota...I am not saying that you should change your opinion, but rather I'd like you and others to try and convince me why you are correct...doesn't have to be here and now if you don't want, maybe over the next bottle of wine, your call.

[Mike_Cirba]

Jim,

I can understand your contention that it shouldn't make a difference in the rankings but I can also tell you that some of what is rated includes presentation, maintenance, and most importantly to this discussion, in the case of Golfweek, the following is one of ten overall criteria;


Integrity of original design:
-extent to which subsequent changes are compatible with the design and enhance the course rather than undermine or weaken it

here's another;

Landscape and tree management:
-extent to which trees and any floral features complements or enhances rather than impose and intrude upon the ground features and playing conditions of the course


I personally think those are really good criteria to look at with classic courses, and although I don't believe PV should necessarily drop from the top (simply because it has more great holes than any other course), I have thought long and hard about it personally.

The next bottle of wine will have you seeing the light.  

[JESII]

The next bottle of wine will have you seeing the light.  

Look forward to it.


I can tell you, the small little scrubs you seem to love are the result of the same "let it be" attitude that brought on the tree encroahment...so, while I agree that it would be amazing to see the course with the trees out to the bunkers widest width's, I see no upside in the return of totally unmaintained sandy areas...do we actually have documentation of the architects intent with regards to sand preparation?[/i]

[Mike_Cirba]

do we actually have documentation of the architects intent with regards to sand preparation?[/i]

Jim,

I believe it was George Crump (or was it Colt?) who wrote;

"Thou shalt keep all sandy waste areas pristine and natural and let the little scrubs and shrubs flourish and multiply and thou shalt utterly cryit down the Sandpro."

I think this was about 1914 or so, but I'd have to check my notes.  

[JESII]

"Thou shalt...", I love it...which Commandment was that again? Was it before or after the one about coveting your neighbor's wife?

[Steve Kline]

What about when the shurbs and srubs get big enough to affect play?

[archie_struthers]

 

hey guys this is scary...beoming a lovefest....Tommy N where are you LOL


...not that I have any insight into the hiearchy's thinking ...that within five years the trees will start to be removed.....just a hunch....

also...as to Chet...when has he not had at least one unbelievable up and down in the course of four hours?

In that I'm older than Sully but much younger than TEP  I
remember wild and wooly with Eb Steiniger and then Craig Reinhardt  and of course the rise of the "Valley" during the tenure of possibly the greatest superintendent ever

Dick Bator....he remains a legend


yet  his attenton to detail did change the course forever....as gnarly as his personality cold be...he ripped out acres of gronkel , lots of it personally LOL

it's an interesting thought...wild and wooly with green speeds that Bator brought...might be too much for the players

stay cool dudes

[TEPaul]

Archie:

If anyone knows and remembers the way that course was (not necessarily why it was the way it was but THE way it was) regarding sand maintenance, or lack of it, it would definitely be you a whole lot more than me.  

How are you anyway? We should get together again one of these days--it's been too long.