Bandon Vs. Pacific Tournament Play

[Mike Wagner]

Bandon is my favorite place in the world, and the discussion of what course I prefer comes up a lot.

Short answer is I love them both and they are architectural masterpieces individually (let's leave Trails out of the discussion completely).  However, under medal play tournament conditions, I prefer Bandon because of the flow.  Meaning the more traditional flow of par 3's 4's & 5's to Pacific's back 9.  I could go on for hours about how much I love their differences, but I'd like to see what people's thoughts are on which one they would rather play in medal tournament (any tournament of significance to YOU, not just the game of golf) conditions.

[Dan Herrmann]

Mike,
I love them both.

Yeah - PD is a better golf course, but each offers its own unique features that fit tournament play well.

I'd actually vote for PD - I think its closing hole is much better than BD.   In fact, I'd go so far as to say that PD finishes 16-18 a lot better than PD.

[Mike Wagner]

Dan:

Precisely why I love to talk about architecture - my opinion is exactly the opposite.  While I love the finishing holes at PD, the last 4 at BD seem to offer more choices.  16th can be the ultra-heroic par downwind, and 18 is reachable versus PD, which I simply just try to avoid a huge #.

It's like trying to figure out which of your two favorite songs you really like the best...tough.

[Jed Peters]

Interesting comment.

I've only had money games on each, but having played both many times, I think I can confidently make this assertion--

Bandon is a better Championship Course, whereas Pacific is a better match play course.

In other words, I think that Bandon tipped out at the 7400 yard length is a better tournament course than the (often considered) strange par 3/4/5 combos on Pacific Dunes.

That being said, this December I've got 4 rounds scheduled on pac dunes, 3 on Trails and one on Bandon. Since (off topic I know) I went there in 99, 00, and 01, returning to Bandon Dunes in 2007 was a HUGE disappointment in terms of what they've done to soften up the course.

[Mike Wagner]

Jed:

Yes, the softening of Bandon really made a difference - especially 14.  Went from a solid risk/reward short par for w/gorse to "go ahead and rip it" w /not much to lose..

[Jed Peters]

Mike:

14 (IMHO) is the best hole on the course, short of playing 4 from the back tees.

The gorse long and left was a threat. But the area down the right was even more penal. Now, I basically bomb it down the right side on 14. Before, that area was WAY grown up and over. It's basically made 13 and 14 what I affectionately like to call "spray and wedge" holes.

Have you seen what they've done to 17? Again, you can just aim down the left with a driver, and there's no penalty. Why lay up with a 3 wood as the hole was designed?

IMHO, Bandon's been ruined. All this, however, had to be done to keep pace of play up, I understand...I just wish they let stuff grow out in the winter...toughen up the track!

[Dan Herrmann]

WHOA
What did they do with BD17?

All the fun there was trying out how close to get to the cliffs on the right.  

[Eric Johnson]

WHOA
What did they do with BD17?

All the fun there was trying out how close to get to the cliffs on the right.  

With the exception of gorse removal in the gorge and left of the fairway bunkers, last time I checked (yesterday) the current 17 hasn't changed since winter of 2001......

I went to check on 17 and, not to worry, the five fairway bunkers on the left and the one at the end of the fairway are still there.  

[Mike Wagner]

Jed:

Great point - 17 when it first opened was a pure hole (with an unbelievable green!)  It was highly strategic, especially coming down the stretch with a great round going.  Not the case any longer -it's a shame.  )Have you played the par 3 tee box there by the way -down to the right completely over the cavern?)

Do you think Bandon presents more heroic risk reward opportunities- i.e. extreme bunkering at 15, potential for anything from 1 to an 8 on 16.....and 18 being reachable vs. Pacific's 18th (avoidance of a high #)? - I amasking on ly in the context of tournament play again.

[Mike Benham]

Under medal play, which course would be the faster play?

I could see some long rounds at PD ... perhaps that is why the Mid-Am is on BD and BT ...

[Jed Peters]

Eric/Mike:

I guess I was commenting on the 2001 17th....but I could have sworn last winter I saw crews out there softening the area left of the fairway bunkers.

To be honest, I don't now see an issue with just bombing it--and if I overhook I've got a 6-9 iron sand shot in out of very non-penal bunkers.

I remember in those 99-01 years when I had to pull 3 wood to layup because I was scared of the right side and the left.

I think that Bandon is a more natural "championship" course than is Pac, but I don't know about risk/reward--for example, 18 on Bandon is not a true risk reward. Where's the risk? The right side? Nope. You hit it right, and with the lateral still have an easy drop and pitch with the wedge.

I think Pac is more risk/reward, and that's why it's more fun.

Examples:

1.  Driver onto green quite easily with a well struck shot
3. 2nd shot into green presents difficulties in holding green.
7. Driver onto green in right cirumstances
11. Sand Wedge short of green or PW at the green and possibly go long with an impossible up and down? (Downwind)
16. Driver onto green if you want to challenge
18. Driver onto top of hill left to get SIGNIFICANTLY more distance and give you opportunity to go for it.

What's Bandon have?

Number 16. MAYBE. The 5 pars are straight forward. Most all are reachable from the "open/public" tee boxes. There's nothing heroic or "fun" on the course, IMHO. Pretty much every hole I can point and shoot. That's not to say it's a bad course, actually, I think it makes a BETTER medal play course.

But Pac you have to play shots, play off hills, hit different clubs...you can't just bang away with driver all day.