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David Stamm

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Los Angeles Country Club North-Pics
« on: September 19, 2007, 02:28:52 PM »
Just thought I'd share some photo's with everyone here on this magnificent course. I played with my friend and fellow GCAer Jon Spaulding and it was quite a treat. I've also included some scans of old photo's from Shackelford's book on Thomas as well as from Thomas' own book for comparison reasons. I hope they can give those viewing this an idea of what they are looking at then and now. I hope everyone enjoys them. This is my first attempt at combining scanning old photo's and showing them with recent photo's, so if the presentation is a little rudimentary, I apologize ahead of time.


The view of the beautiful clubhouse from the 1st FW

 

The view from the first tee. Straightaway par 5 of 524 yards.



View of the first green. Perhaps Tommy N can comment on this, but I believe the bell tower in the background is the church that Thomas had donated money to build. I'm not certain.



The wonderful par 4 3rd. Thomas and Bell made great use of the natural landforms here. This is the view from the tee. 385 yds.



A closer view, with the bag (Jon's) showing the ideal landing area



The view from the less than ideal angle, where this feature empties into the wash behind




A look back at the tee. The wash can be seen to the right, where the previous feature shown can be seen flowing into   it.



A closer view of the green



The tee shot on the par 4 5th, 474 yds. This was one of the holes that Thomas' had originally designed to be a hole within a hole.



The view from the fairway looking back at the tee. It appears, although I'm not certain, that the old alternate tee can be seen on the left, shortening the hole to 360 yds and utilizing the right portion of the green for that route.



The sketch of Thomas' as it appears in Shackelford's book.



A view of the green. Note the bunker's on the right. This would've been to protect the right pin placment that would've been used in conjunction with the short tee.



The view from the tee on the short par 4 6th, 340 yds. This hole has been changed by Robert Muir Graves and does not play the way Thomas' intended. The trees on the right were not there and gave the stronger player the option of going for the green, which originally played at 300 yds.




A sketch of GS that shows the hole way the hole originally played.



The view of the present green site. It has been shifted up and to the left, away from the slope where the trees on the right sit.



The tee shot on the wonderful par 3 233 yd 7th, another of the holes within a hole. The hole would also have been played as a 360 yd par 4. In the foreground to the right can be seen the fairway that would've been used for that tee.



The sketch of the hole by GS from his book.



Looking back at the tee. The alternate tee would've been to the left and back into where the present trees are.



A view after the tee shot on the fantastic par 5 8th. 561 yds.



A photo of the same view from Thomas' book



After deciding to lay up, the view to the green.



The sketch  of the hole from GS's book.



A look back from the green.



Tee shot on the par 3 9th, 177 yds.



And from GS's book.




The tee shot on the 374 yd par 4 10th. Awesome fw movement.



A look back at the tee.



A view of the green from the bunker 30 yds short and to the right.



The amazing reverse Redan 11th, 244 yds. This is the exact opposite of the great par 3 4th at Riviera. Where that one is uphill and plays right to left, this obviously plays totally different. Nevertheless, they are both magnificent.



A closer view.



A original photo from GS's book.



A look back at the tee



The tee shot on the 368 yd par 4 12th. Note the white rock in the hillside showing the player the ideal line.



An interested spectator



The view of the green site from the right side of the fw.



One of the best par 4's on the course. The 453 yd par 4 13th. Again, awesome fw movement.



A closer look at the green with the playboy mansion in the trees in the background.



The tee shot on the 564 par 5 14th, one of the best I've ever played.



An old photo of the green site from GS's book.




And today. The falloff to the right of the green is severe. I challenged the pin and missed just a little to the right and paid a huge price with a pitch back up the hill, 10ft above my head.



The tee shot on the short par 3 15th, 133 yds.



A closer view



A view of the green.



A photo from GS's book.



The tee shot on the 447 yd par 4 16th. Again, wonderful fw movement. The LZ is blind.



A closer view



A view of the green.



The tee shot on the fantastic 432 yd par 4 17th, possibly the best par 4 on the course.



A slightly different angle.



The view from the fw at the green. The pin is on the right and can barely be seen (red).



A closer view



The sketch from GS's book.



A look back at the tee.



A look at the green from the 2nd FW in the morning



While a much different course than it's more illustrious neighbor, Riviera, LACC is an equally fine example of Thomas and Bell's genius. While both occupy vastly different types of terrain, they both show what can be done by a talented pair of architects at the peak of their powers. If the chance presents itself, playing the course should not be missed.



 





 

« Last Edit: September 21, 2007, 11:00:32 AM by David Stamm »
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Tommy Williamsen

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Re:Los Angeles Country Club North-Pics
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2007, 02:38:34 PM »
Great job.  I played LACC North about five years ago.  I could remember the holes after viewing the pictures.  I thought it was a wonderful course. I'm not sure it is as good as its reputation would make us think.  I loved the greens.  I thought they were some of the more interesting in the LA area.

Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Michael Dugger

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Re:Los Angeles Country Club North-Pics
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2007, 02:42:22 PM »
This is freaking fabulous.  Couple of weeks ago it's The Golf Club, now LACC.

Two courses I have long wanted to see more of.

Where is the SFCC and Seminole spreads, now? :D
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

David Stamm

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Re:Los Angeles Country Club North-Pics
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2007, 02:43:07 PM »
Keep in mind Tommy that quite a few holes have been changed, such as the 2nd, which is a totally out of character par 5 that Graves had done. And I'm fairly certain that the par 3 4th has been altered quite a bit. Riviera is more intact than LACC, but if at thier peaks, it would've been a tough choice.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Jason Topp

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Re:Los Angeles Country Club North-Pics
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2007, 03:16:19 PM »
Thanks for the terrific photo essay.  Would it be feasible and/or desireable to restore the short option on the par four as well as the par four option on the long par three?

JC Jones

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Re:Los Angeles Country Club North-Pics
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2007, 03:22:42 PM »
I find the picture of 9 in Thomas's book interesting compared to your picture.  The tree to the left of the green has been removed and the bunker to the right has been split into two, more manicured, bunkers.  

I think I prefer the old vs the new as it really requires a precise iron shot, potentially shaped right to left if the pin was back left.  Now any high iron shot should be safe.
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

wsmorrison

Re:Los Angeles Country Club North-Pics
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2007, 03:31:33 PM »
David,

Thank you for posting these photos.  It looks like a fascinating course, as one would expect from a Thomas.  The bunkering surrounds are quite a bit different from the originals with sharper edges and added capes.  When was that style implemented and is there any discussion of reverting back to the original look?

Steve Lapper

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Re:Los Angeles Country Club North-Pics
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2007, 03:37:31 PM »
Great work! LACC is one of my favorite places to play. I'm looking forward to round there soon so you've made my day!

What is tough to capture and fairly present by photo is the elevation shifts and movements of the terrain. This feature is far more pronounced than Riviera and makes any decent golfer even more uncomfortable in stance and lie.

The greens undulations are certainly evident, but again, it is tough to capture more than a single dimension with a camera. LACC is a bigger course than Riv as well and thus the player has to expend much more energy to produce a superior round. I love them both, but actually find LACC to almost be underrated (mostly due to lack of exposure relative to Riv). Thanks for the great photos!
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Michael Wharton-Palmer

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Re:Los Angeles Country Club North-Pics
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2007, 03:37:47 PM »
Wonderful pictures..I heard that the membership recently rejected a plan from Gil Hanse to do some remodelling work...any takers?

rjsimper

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Re:Los Angeles Country Club North-Pics
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2007, 03:38:20 PM »
Doesn't reverse redan imply that a running shot would work? ;)

Nice shots, DS.  

I believe the 16-18 stretch is one of the finer finishing trios in the area and three 4s over that stretch isn't ever going to lose much ground.


Mike Wagner

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Re:Los Angeles Country Club North-Pics
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2007, 03:44:08 PM »
Outstanding stuff - perfect post for this site.  One of those courses most don't get to see in this detail.  Thanks for the efforts!

Brad Tufts

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Re:Los Angeles Country Club North-Pics
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2007, 03:44:51 PM »
Great set of pics!

After playing there, I have to agree with Tommy that it may not be as good as its reputation.

I played it with Ryan Simper, and we talked out that it has a certain cache' in LA because public golfers are more used to the arid, desert-style course, and believe the famous tree-lined private courses in town to be the end all.

Being from the Northeast personally, I have played a great many tree-lined, well-maintained, heavily undulating courses, even many with good strategy.  The greens are very fast and as a result, they do not have heavy interior contouring.  I would view a good "Socal" styled layout to be unique in comparison with Northeast Parkland.

So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

grandwazo

Re:Los Angeles Country Club North-Pics
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2007, 03:54:40 PM »
Fantastic job, thank you for taking the time to post the pictures and add your comments.  The course is obviously beautifully maintained and offers an array of shotmaking opportunities.  Personally, I prefer the more "natural" look of the bunkering in the older photos and I think a return to that style would more accurately capture the architects original design intent.  Thank you again for taking the time to put these up.

David Stamm

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Re:Los Angeles Country Club North-Pics
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2007, 04:03:05 PM »
Thanks for the terrific photo essay.  Would it be feasible and/or desireable to restore the short option on the par four as well as the par four option on the long par three?


Jason, I don't know about the 5th. It may be a little tight on the right side there, but I could be wrong. The tee on 7 is very doable IMHO. Jon and I think we saw the tee site after walking off the 6th green. There is plenty of room to make it work, and the only thing holding it back is some simple tree clearing.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Tom Huckaby

Re:Los Angeles Country Club North-Pics
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2007, 04:06:15 PM »
Great set of pics!

After playing there, I have to agree with Tommy that it may not be as good as its reputation.

I played it with Ryan Simper, and we talked out that it has a certain cache' in LA because public golfers are more used to the arid, desert-style course, and believe the famous tree-lined private courses in town to be the end all.

Being from the Northeast personally, I have played a great many tree-lined, well-maintained, heavily undulating courses, even many with good strategy.  The greens are very fast and as a result, they do not have heavy interior contouring.  I would view a good "Socal" styled layout to be unique in comparison with Northeast Parkland.



Brad/Ryan - this would make sense if most SoCal courses are arid and desert-style... that sure as heck isn't the case, outside of the desert itself obviously!  Most LA courses sure as heck are parkland, tree-lined....

So I don't think LACC-North gets brownie points just for being this.  Heck I don't even think it gets such for being ultra-private - there are plenty of those also.

I think it does have a "mystique" though due to all the stories about it turning down US Opens.  That might cause it to be a little over-rated, if it is.

Ryan will find this all out if he lives in SoCal long enough and plays courses other than Rustic Canyon.

 ;D ;D

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Los Angeles Country Club North-Pics
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2007, 04:06:21 PM »
David,

Thank you for posting these photos.  It looks like a fascinating course, as one would expect from a Thomas.  The bunkering surrounds are quite a bit different from the originals with sharper edges and added capes.  When was that style implemented and is there any discussion of reverting back to the original look?

Wayne, I'm not sure about the timeline on when the bunkers started to lose the trademark Bell look. Perhaps TN can fill us in on that. As far as reverting back, I don't know.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Los Angeles Country Club North-Pics
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2007, 04:08:06 PM »
Great work! LACC is one of my favorite places to play. I'm looking forward to round there soon so you've made my day!

What is tough to capture and fairly present by photo is the elevation shifts and movements of the terrain. This feature is far more pronounced than Riviera and makes any decent golfer even more uncomfortable in stance and lie.

The greens undulations are certainly evident, but again, it is tough to capture more than a single dimension with a camera. LACC is a bigger course than Riv as well and thus the player has to expend much more energy to produce a superior round. I love them both, but actually find LACC to almost be underrated (mostly due to lack of exposure relative to Riv). Thanks for the great photos!

Thanks Steve. I agree, the course is "bigger" than Riviera and obviously has alot more land movement.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

David Stamm

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Re:Los Angeles Country Club North-Pics
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2007, 04:09:05 PM »
Wonderful pictures..I heard that the membership recently rejected a plan from Gil Hanse to do some remodelling work...any takers?

I haven't heard anything definitive, Michael.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

David Stamm

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Re:Los Angeles Country Club North-Pics
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2007, 04:12:51 PM »
Doesn't reverse redan imply that a running shot would work? ;)

Nice shots, DS.  

I believe the 16-18 stretch is one of the finer finishing trios in the area and three 4s over that stretch isn't ever going to lose much ground.



Thanks Ryan. You would think! I just aimed at the flag and barely cleared the steep bunker. Probably not what Thomas' had in mind. If I get the chance, next time I'll try and aim for the left and see what happens.

I completely agree with your take on the closing trio. I wish i had a little more time to look around and see where the original 18th tee might've been.




"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Michael Dugger

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Re:Los Angeles Country Club North-Pics
« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2007, 04:31:01 PM »
I know LUI went in there and did a "bunker reno" in the late 90's.

What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Tim Leahy

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Re:Los Angeles Country Club North-Pics
« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2007, 04:33:21 PM »
I played there in college in the 80's and the greens were the fastest best conditioned and most difficult I have ever played. I had two four putts. The highlight of a losing match against SC was passing within earshot of the Playboy mansion off the 13th tee I believe. Too bad that wall was so high......
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Los Angeles Country Club North-Pics
« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2007, 04:54:52 PM »
MW-P,
Your information is incorrect. The LACC plan by Gil Hanse & Geoff Shackelford has not been rejected, it hasn't even been finalized.


David Stamm

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Re:Los Angeles Country Club North-Pics
« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2007, 05:12:45 PM »
Thanks for write-up and photos.

I am surprised by the width of the fairways and for the most part, and based on the photos, that the course feels "open" and not tree restricted.  Is that true, or just a wild assumption based on a few photos?

 

The course does feel very open in spots, more so on the back nine than on the front.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

rjsimper

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Re:Los Angeles Country Club North-Pics
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2007, 05:35:13 PM »
Thanks for write-up and photos.

I am surprised by the width of the fairways and for the most part, and based on the photos, that the course feels "open" and not tree restricted.  Is that true, or just a wild assumption based on a few photos?

 

The course does feel very open in spots, more so on the back nine than on the front.

This does not mean the course does not place a premium on driving the ball long and straight....it does, maybe moreso than any other course in the area.  Not because of the length, but rather the green complexes being firm, VERY fast, and surrounded by rough and bunkers right up to the fringes in many cases.  A well struck shot from the fairway is often needed to find the green, and a slight miss of the green leaves a difficult chop-chip from time to time.

Evan_Green

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Re:Los Angeles Country Club North-Pics
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2007, 07:12:51 PM »
I am having technical difficulties seeing the pictures- they are all coming up as little boxes with a red x in the middle...

Its a shame because I would really like to see these...

Anyone else having this problem?

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