(de)evolution of Cobb's Creek

[Mike_Cirba]

Since Hugh Wilson's involvement has come into question, I thought it important to mention that I haven't come across any information to indicate the C.B. Macdonald was involved, but the 5th hole would be a pretty good "Lido".  

[wsmorrison]

Good stuff, Mike.  Looking forward to researching this.

[Peter Pallotta]

Mike C
I don't know if this is relevant (or related), but for what it's worth, a little tid-bit from a 1917 article (in American Golfer, I think) referencing a course at Cobb's Creek. If it's the same one you're talking about, it was being discussed for a lot of years.

"The Philadelphia Public Golf Course is destined to be built in the park at Cobb's Creek. That the links for the people
is to be actually constructed at last is most gratifying to those who have advocated the project for so long a time, but to some it seems that a more fortunate selection of site might have been made. The Cobb's Creek section is quite hilly and a few blind holes are inevitable. This is an evil which should be avoided, particularly on a course which is bound to be thronged, and by those who are not prone to be too observant of the ethics of the game."

Peter
Interesting that bind holes were seen in 1917 as "particularly" evil on a public course

[Mike_Cirba]

Peter,

I believe that article by Tillinghast is circa 1915.  

In fact, the first proposed routing at Cobbs was discarded simply because there were too many blind shots and Tillinghast rightfully argued that the general public would have very little knowledge of the etiquette of the game and an excessive number of blind shots would likely create a dangerous situation.

Because of the input of Tillinghast and others, the original design was changed.

[MSusko]

I've worked at Cobb's for 5 years and have served as the GM since April of 2005.  I really enjoyed reading all of your comments on the course and agree that a large scale capitol improvment is needed.  The problem with this is who will finance this.  I am in comminication with the city and the park comm. on a weekly basis and there simply isn't any funds for this project.  Once a year the park commisioners and the executive director of fairmount park come out to Cobb's and tour the property.  Each year they state how we really have something special here and it would be a shame not to renovate the place to ensure that it is here for future generations.  After getting everyone's hopes up they leave and I don't here from them again until the following year.  I'm in my mid twenties and I took this job because I knew it would be a challange and would hopefully prepare me for anything I would face later in my carrer.  Let me tell you that it has been.  We kind of have an irrigation system that is at least 50 years old.  Some of our equipment is so old that when it breaks we have to special order parts because most of them are not available anymore.  We have a maint. budget that would be a stretch for 18 holes let alone 36.  Despite all of this the course is in the best shape I've seen it since I've been here.  Our GCS deserves all the credit in the world.  I hope this answers some of your questions, as for the design origins all of the info I've come across is on our website.  I do have a few old scorecards somewhere.  When I find them I'll post them.

Mark Susko
General Manager
Cobb's Creek
www.GolfPhilly.com

[wsmorrison]

Mark,

Those of us that live in or around Philadelphia are at least somewhat aware of what a mess city government is (though surely not to the extent you are).  My comments were not made with any intent to implicate the talent or passion of those working at Cobb's Creek GC.  I believe the budgetary constraints alone is responsible for the condition of the course and do not hold much hope for city funding in this deplorable administration.  Perhaps the next administration will figure out a way to get government working better for the general population and that recreation facilities are a big part of quality of living.  

It is an excellent course (who cares if it doesn't measure up to Bethpage?) that deserves better.  Hopefully improvements will happen.

[MSusko]

Wayne,

Thanks for your comments.  I in no way take anything personally.  I understood the situation here when I took the job.  As for the city admin, we have been in touch with Micheal Nutter in hopes that he can fast track a plan to get some improvments done.  Keep your fingers crossed.

Mark

[wsmorrison]

Mark,

It was Nutter that I was hoping would find a way.  I know a fellow that may come back to help Nutter with financial matters (Nutter worked for him years ago) and that would be encouraging.

Glad to have you on the site and posting.  Welcome!

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Mark,

Good to have you here.

I think what is needed is some creative thinking to get results instead of the same old,same old " There are no funds for this project" from the city. Outside parties such as corporate and golf associations need to work in partnership with the city, the FPC and Liberty Golf to accomplish something. I'm not talking about Bethpage, Torrey Pines or Harding Park money but something along the lines of what Houston's Memorial and other lower profile munis have done.

Phoenix is in the middle of something like this for a possible Papago renovation.

Does Nutter play golf?

Steve

[wsmorrison]

Let's get those guys at East Lake up here to figure out how to revitalize the neighborhood and the golf course.  We can have Tastykake be a sponsor like Coca Cola did down in Atlanta.  I think it may not be a stretch to say that Cobb's Creekc could be as good or better than East Lake, though no Jones connection.

[MSusko]

Steve,

Do you have any more info on how Phoenix is doing this?

Mark

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Mark,

Contact Forrest Richardson, a golf course architect, who frequently posts here for details.( www.golfgroupltd.com ) From what I understand, there are many interested parties and companies involved, particularly the hotel industry who might get tee times in return for their contributions. A former Mayor is leading the group involved in this project.

Here's something:

www.papagogolf.net

www.backspinthegolfshow.com/docs/features/070507.htm

[MCirba]

Feeling nostalgic today, and came across this thread started by Joe Bausch back in 2007 that spurred my interest and both of our subsequent research.

Very interesting to re-read everyone's perspectives from that time.