12 hole prestwick pre 1883

[Adrian_Stiff]

Does anyone know of a routing plan for the original 12 holer, or an accurate description? perhaps a web site, picture, etc. Thanks.

[wsmorrison]

I played golf with a past Captain of Prestwick a week or so ago as part of a visiting group from the golfing society of Marylebone Cricket Club.  Apparently Prestwick has a comprehensive and very well organized archives and are willing to share digital copies with the USGA golf architecture archive and research center.  I should be getting a set in the near future and will see if there is anything related to the original 12-hole routing.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Thanks Wayne.

[michael_j_fay]

All I really know is that it started near the road and the first hole was a 578 (or so) par 5. There is a sign there.

[John Chilver-Stainer]

Michael,

Interestingly the long first hole was pre-par and did not have a par rating - on their web site they estimate that the long hole would have been equivalent to a Par 6!
Who needs Par anyway

[Pete_Pittock]

The modern course is printed in green. The 1851 course is printed in white. North is to left. East is to top.
Hole #1 Back of Cardinal 578 2' 9" runs S to N
Hole #2 Alps                 385        runs ESE
Hole #3 Tunnel (Red)     167     7" runs N
Hole #4 Wall                 448 2' 5" runs NW
Hole #5 Sea Hedrig        440 1' 4" runs S
Hole #6 Tunnel (White)  314  1' 9" runs ENE
Hole #7 Green Hollow     144 1' 7" runs SSW
Hole #8 Station            166 0' 4" runs S
Hole #9 Burn                395 1"    runs NNW
Hole 10 Lunch House     213 1' 2" runs SSE
Hole 11 Short              132         runs NW
Hole 12 Home              417 2' 1"  runs S
Total 3802 yds 2 ft.
Young Tom Morris made a three on the 1st hole on Sept 15th, 1870 in the Open, exactly 137 years ago today. It would have been an eagle if the the term had been invented.
Par also had not been invented. Young Tom Morris also made a hole in one on the 8th hole in the 1869 OPen.

This map is from the limited edition (1250)book Prestwick Golf Club, edited by David Cameron Smail (1987). The map was prepared by J N McLean, no other info available. The comprehensive book even has an article about Kummel.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Peter- Thank you so much.

[Rich Goodale]

Thanks too, Peter.

Interesting that the current 2, 3 and 17 are essentially as played on the 12-hole course.  This seems to lend credence to the assertion (made to me by the Secretary at Prestwick) that Old Tom Morris designed the Alps hole.

Rich

[Adrian_Stiff]

Thanks too, Peter.

Interesting that the current 2, 3 and 17 are essentially as played on the 12-hole course.  This seems to lend credence to the assertion (made to me by the Secretary at Prestwick) that Old Tom Morris designed the Alps hole.

Rich

Richard- and the 13th (sea headrig hole) is pretty much the same. I thought I read something about the members play the old 12 hole course once a year (I could have been dreaming though). It did not really look possible though.

[Rich Goodale]

Sean

If you look at the wonderful map in the original post, you will see that Adrian is mostly right.  Same green, but only slightly altered angle of approach, both going requiring one to negotiate Willie Campbell's Grave.....

Rich

[Adrian_Stiff]

Sean - I looked at the sea headrig green and infact took some pictures of it from the angle you mention (from the railway). I intend to use the sea headrig green, but from this angle in a future design. I think to recreate this green today using todays alignment may not go down to well, although a comprimised version with more pinnable areas could be very good, the principle of the front left throw off I quite like and bunkerless greens is something I am definetly in favour off, a green defended by natural slope is a plus IMO. I have one course where five of the first eight holes have no greenside bunkers, no one ever mentions it though and I am not sure if that is a back handed compliment or not.
The present second green, used twice in the 12 hole routing works quite well from the other direction. Withsome muchcriss crossing I suppose using a green twice made little difference back in those days.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Sean - I looked at the sea headrig green and infact took some pictures of it from the angle you mention (from the railway). I intend to use the sea headrig green, but from this angle in a future design. I think to recreate this green today using todays alignment may not go down to well, although a comprimised version with more pinnable areas could be very good, the principle of the front left throw off I quite like and bunkerless greens is something I am definetly in favour off, a green defended by natural slope is a plus IMO. I have one course where five of the first eight holes have no greenside bunkers, no one ever mentions it though and I am not sure if that is a back handed compliment or not.
The present second green, used twice in the 12 hole routing works quite well from the other direction. Withsome muchcriss crossing I suppose using a green twice made little difference back in those days.

Adrian

I think you are right that folks would get a bit uptight about a green like Sea Headrig from the angle it sets against the fairway.  However, if the angle were more from the left side of the 16th fairway I think this is acceptable and still quite difficult and still a bit quirky.  To use that green approaching from straight on really eliminates what makes the hole so fascinating.  Also coming from the left abit favours a fade which I think is the preferred ball flight of most high cappers.  Also, one way to alleviate some of the "pain" of Sea Headrig's green is to use this type on a hole that isn't so long.  Its the combination of length and angle which as a double whammy may not be fully appreciated by greens fee paying customers.  

Ciao

Sean- yes definitely the sheer length of this hole makes it a real tough approach and if the hole was 360 instead of 460 it would be more acceptable. Remember back in the old days this hole was essentially a three shotter so in some respects it would have worked better then than it does today. I think to recreate this green using todays alignment into a new design, you would have to increase the green size, it is very small and with the 80-90% unusuable areas, this green seemed much more stressed than the others I looked at. So whilst a sea headrig green works better at say a drive 9 iron situation, I think on balance it would be a mistake to build a green that would pose such a maintenance headache.