Stoke Park/Stoke Poges Club?

[Martin Del Vecchio]

I just watched Layer Cake, which is an excellent British gangster movie.

Several scenes take place at the Stoke Park Club, which is credited on their web site to Harry S. Colt in 1908:

http://www.stokeparkclub.co.uk/membership/golf.htm

I got a quick glimpse at some bunkers as the protagonist's car first drove to the club.  The first set looked very American, and the second looked more like pot bunkers.

Any knowledge of this course?

And any truth to this gem:

"it does have Colt’s finest single hole (the seventh), a short par three upon which the notorious twelth at Augusta was modelled.” (Today’s Golfer, 1992)."

[G Jones]

I just watched Layer Cake, which is an excellent British gangster movie.

Several scenes take place at the Stoke Park Club, which is credited on their web site to Harry S. Colt in 1908:

http://www.stokeparkclub.co.uk/membership/golf.htm

I got a quick glimpse at some bunkers as the protagonist's car first drove to the club.  The first set looked very American, and the second looked more like pot bunkers.

Any knowledge of this course?

And any truth to this gem:

"it does have Colt’s finest single hole (the seventh), a short par three upon which the notorious twelth at Augusta was modelled.” (Today’s Golfer, 1992)."

I thought it was the 16th at Augusta that was based on it? That is, the original 16th that played in the same direction as 15 (from right of 15 green to the base of the hill below the 6th tee). But it didn't live up to the original and so they built the current 16th sometime later. Or maybe I'm getting confused... I'm sure I read that somewhere in a big augusta national club history book... although everywhere on the internet does seem to say the 12th...

This was it in the painting if you scroll down:
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/artarchitecture2.html

[Pete Lavallee]

Here's a photo of the 7th, from their website:



Sure looks like the 12th at Augusta to me.

I was unable to play here but took the wife for lunch, it is an unspeakably beautiful estate. I believe the spacious grounds and gardens were designed by Capability Brown. The clubhouse "a vision in white marble" according to Darwin, was designed for the son of William Penn, who apparently had a hard time spending all the money his Dad got for Penn. The golf scenes from Goldfinger were shot here as well. There is also a wonderful Norman church on the grounds which serves as the final resting place for a distinguished poet, whose name escapes me at the present time. Possibly the best aspect of the course is that one gets to drive through Slough to get there; a truely unforgettable experience!

[Marty Bonnar]

Possibly the best aspect of the course is that one gets to drive through Slough to get there; a truely unforgettable experience!

Nice one Pete. I think Betjeman best expressed the 'beauty' of the town:

Slough
Come friendly bombs and fall on Slough!
It isn't fit for humans now,
There isn't grass to graze a cow.
Swarm over, Death!

Come, bombs and blow to smithereens
Those air -conditioned, bright canteens,
Tinned fruit, tinned meat, tinned milk, tinned beans,
Tinned minds, tinned breath.

Mess up the mess they call a town-
A house for ninety-seven down
And once a week a half a crown
For twenty years.

And get that man with double chin
Who'll always cheat and always win,
Who washes his repulsive skin
In women's tears:

And smash his desk of polished oak
And smash his hands so used to stroke
And stop his boring dirty joke
And make him yell.

But spare the bald young clerks who add
The profits of the stinking cad;
It's not their fault that they are mad,
They've tasted Hell.

It's not their fault they do not know
The birdsong from the radio,
It's not their fault they often go
To Maidenhead

And talk of sport and makes of cars
In various bogus-Tudor bars
And daren't look up and see the stars
But belch instead.

In labour-saving homes, with care
Their wives frizz out peroxide hair
And dry it in synthetic air
And paint their nails.

Come, friendly bombs and fall on Slough
To get it ready for the plough.
The cabbages are coming now;
The earth exhales.

 
FBD.

[Pete Lavallee]

Great poem Martin; at least I know where that poet is buried!

[Jon Earl]

Possibly the best aspect of the course is that one gets to drive through Slough to get there; a truely unforgettable experience!

Nice one Pete. I think Betjeman best expressed the 'beauty' of the town:

Slough
Come friendly bombs and fall on Slough!
It isn't fit for humans now,
There isn't grass to graze a cow.
Swarm over, Death!

Come, bombs and blow to smithereens
Those air -conditioned, bright canteens,
Tinned fruit, tinned meat, tinned milk, tinned beans,
Tinned minds, tinned breath.

Mess up the mess they call a town-
A house for ninety-seven down
And once a week a half a crown
For twenty years.

And get that man with double chin
Who'll always cheat and always win,
Who washes his repulsive skin
In women's tears:

And smash his desk of polished oak
And smash his hands so used to stroke
And stop his boring dirty joke
And make him yell.

But spare the bald young clerks who add
The profits of the stinking cad;
It's not their fault that they are mad,
They've tasted Hell.

It's not their fault they do not know
The birdsong from the radio,
It's not their fault they often go
To Maidenhead

And talk of sport and makes of cars
In various bogus-Tudor bars
And daren't look up and see the stars
But belch instead.

In labour-saving homes, with care
Their wives frizz out peroxide hair
And dry it in synthetic air
And paint their nails.

Come, friendly bombs and fall on Slough
To get it ready for the plough.
The cabbages are coming now;
The earth exhales.

 
FBD.

This is what David Brent has to say about the poem in The Office (which was, of course, based in Slough).

This is the poem Slough, by Sir John Betjemen, probably never been here in his life. 'Come friendly bombs and fall on Slough, it isn't fit for humans now.' Right, I don't think you solve town planning problems by dropping bombs all over the place, he's embarrassed himself there.
Next 'In labour saving homes with care, their wives frizz out peroxide hair, and dry it in synthetic air, and paint their nails-' they wanna look nice, what's the matter, doesn't he like girls? 'And talks of sports and makes of cars, and various bogus Tudor bars, and daren't look up and see the stars, but belch instead.' What's he on about? What, has he never burped?
'Come friendly bombs and fall on Slough, to get it ready for the plough. The cabbages are coming now, the earth exhales-' He's the only cabbage round here. And they made him a night of the realm. Overrated.

[Tom Birkert]

I used to be a member there. The club had been through some hard times in the 80s and 90s but new owners took over and the course was a lot better maintained, and a third 9 was built in addition to the existing 18 holes (I believe there originally were 27 holes prior to World War II).

The 7th is indeed the model for the 12th at Augusta. The green is approximately 30 yards long and runs diagonally from front left to back right, with the green very slanted towards the stream. Parts of the green are as sloped as the 10th at Riviera. It would play anything from a 9 iron to a 6/7 iron depending on the pin position and the wind. Being above the pin was never fun, but worse still was to be over the green in the bunkers. The bank was never shaved, which stopped many a ball going in the water.

The original 18 hole course is a nice track. Some changes were made to the 15th and 16th which I didn’t like (the 15th being changed into a particularly dull par 3 from a quirky, split level green driveable par 4).

The club is very corporate and has attempted to pitch itself as a country club rival to Wentworth by spending a huge amount on a health club. One of the problems they have is that it is situated in Slough, which – apologies to anyone who lives there – isn’t the nicest area. I think they are struggling financially.

[Mark Pearce]

Ouch!

I've played Stoke Park a couple of times, at least 15 years ago, when it was still Stoke Poges GC and didn't cost the GDP of a small African nation to get on.  It is, from recollection a nice, but not outstanding course.  The 7th is believed to be the model for 12 at Augusta and certainly looks the part.

As to Slough, I used to be a pretty good field hockey player and Slough used to have one of the best teams in England (European Champions in 1981).  In about 1989 I moved from Twickenham to Slough to save myself the drive to training and matches 5 times a week.  Betjeman caught the beauty of the place but I would say in Slough's defence that the same poem could have been written about Watford or Hounslow or very many places just outside London.

[Marc Haring]

As a resident of Slough for many years, I feel I must point out that it is in my honest opinion one of the very finest towns to be found anywhere in Southern Asia. I still miss that gentle aromatic waft of curry residue that filled the air on a Sunday morning, the sound of the native population making there way to A & E and that sense of camaraderie that comes with knowing that we were all in this s**t hole together.

At the time I was in the early stages of my greenkeeping career at Stoke Poges and I agree with Mark. It’s a good course but nowhere near Colts best. When I was there the place was run down and about to be taken over by the corporate machine that have since done a fine job of hyping it up to what it is now. They did do a total bunker rebuilding programme together with a beautification scheme that was supposedly in keeping with the original Colt philosophy. I will leave it up to others more expert than I to decide on how successful they have been.

You can get quite a good picture of the courses on google earth.

[David Stamm]

If memory serves, Chrisopher Wren designed the clubhouse. He was the greatest architect England had ever produced and was responsible for much of the buildings that are seen in London (before the Blitz) such as St Paul's.

[BCrosby]

The 7th at SP was the model for the original 16th (NLE) at ANGC.

MacKenzie said in 1933:

"This [the original 16th at ANGC] is a somewhat similar hole over a stream to the best hole (seventh) at Stoke Poges, England. It is probably a better hole than the one at Stoke Poges as the green is more visible and the background more attractive."

Is the 7th at SP partially blind, as MacK suggests?

Bob

[D_Malley]

did this course use wicker baskets instead of flags in it's early days?

[Marc Haring]

Not to my knowledge. I think they use it as a gimmicky thing to try and inject some class.

[Marc Haring]

From the website:

"THE CLUBHOUSE
Originally the private home of the Penn family (founders of Pennsylvania), this Grade I Palladian Mansion was designed by the architect to King George III, James Wyatt, and completed in 1795."

[G Jones]

The 7th at SP was the model for the original 16th (NLE) at ANGC.

MacKenzie said in 1933:

"This [the original 16th at ANGC] is a somewhat similar hole over a stream to the best hole (seventh) at Stoke Poges, England. It is probably a better hole than the one at Stoke Poges as the green is more visible and the background more attractive."

Is the 7th at SP partially blind, as MacK suggests?

Bob

Ah ha!
I knew it was the original 16th and not the 12th. Clearly someone, somewhere, has looked themself, decided that it looks like the 12th, written it somewhere, and then it's spread like wildfire across the net.

[BCrosby]

G Jones -

I seem to recall that it was the SP club itself that stated that its 7th was the model for ANGC's 12th.

Bob

[JNC Lyon]

Stoke Park Club was therefore wrong, because this hole was definitely a model for old 16 at ANGC.  Note also that the golf scenes in Goldfinger were filmed here (the scene with Odd Job knocking the head off the statue might be the best in the movie), but you all probably knew that.

[G Jones]

G Jones -

I seem to recall that it was the SP club itself that stated that its 7th was the model for ANGC's 12th.

Bob

Doesn't surprise me.  

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

This was part of a great rotation of courses I was priviledged to play in the summer of 1979.  I also remember a picture in the clubhouse mentioning the 7th being the original 12th at Augusta.  The 16th at Augusta may have been modeled after the 7th, but the 12th really does seem like a spitting image.
Though not the equal of the Sunningdale courses, every round was a fun challenge that required some shotmaking.

[Marc Haring]

Well I worked there for three years on the greens crew and I always was told it was #12 at ANGC. Just goes to show, there seems to be more knowledge here than there is at the actual clubs.

However; from the clubs website:

GOLF COURSE  
Encircling the Club's 350 acre Buckinghamshire parkland estate, the historic 27 hole Championship golf course, known as Stoke Poges, is undisputedly one of the finest parkland courses in the country. Created in 1908 by eminent golf architect Harry Shapland Colt, the Stoke Poges course has been the inspiration for many of the world¹s most famous holes, including Augusta¹s infamous 12th at the centre of Amen Corner. The course itself has seen many impressive rounds in its prestigious history, including the first PGA Matchplay tournament in 1910 and James Bond's epic golfing duel in the 1964 classic 007 movie 'Goldfinger'.

[Paul_Turner]

The 7th isn't Colt's greatest hole,  that's promotional spin from the new owners.  It is a good hole with its green severely tilted towards the water.  Bunker shots from the back are scary.  

Some of the bunker redo work isn't much like what was there originally!

I think the better solution than the new poor 15 and 16 holes (changed because 15 crossed the entrance road), would have been to keep the 15th green and play it as a par 3.

The club should be coming out with a centenary book, soon, I assume.  

[Marc Haring]

From the Art and Architecture section, here is Mike Miller's Picture of that old 16th at ANGC. Along with the quote there's no doubt, #7 at Stoke is definitely the blueprint for the old 16th and not the 12th. Everything is there; the slope left to right, the stream on the right, the green angle the setting into the hillside, the left side bunkers.



The original photo can be found in Geoff Shakelford’s Golden Age book, page 166. Has anyone got the picture that they can post.

The hole now looks like this but when I worked there it was very much like that old ANGC #16. They’ve changed the bunkering and added lots of beautification stuff with the pond and the rhododendrons etc.

[G Jones]

The hole now looks like this but when I worked there it was very much like that old ANGC #16. They’ve changed the bunkering and added lots of beautification stuff with the pond and the rhododendrons etc.

If everyone at the club seems to believe the myth that it was the inspiration for the 12th, then it's no wonder they've added the bunkers behind and the rhododendrons! :-P

[Tony Dear]

"it does have Colt’s finest single hole (the seventh), a short par three upon which the notorious twelfth at Augusta was modelled.” (Today’s Golfer, 1992)."


I know the guy that wrote this because I used to work for Today's Golfer. I told him he was quite mad to think the hole was Colt's finest. It may be the most enjoyable to play on an otherwise fairly average course (by Colt's standards at least) but to call it his finest hole is frankly absurd. "Have you not played Rye, Portrush, the New Course at Sunningdale, Swinley Forest, Aberdovey, Aldeburgh, Crowborough, Little Aston, Wentworth, Mannings Heath etc etc?' I asked.
'Er, no' he said.

[Kevin Pallier]

Though not the equal of the Sunningdale courses, every round was a fun challenge that required some shotmaking.

Robert

I agree - the fact that it is so close to such a great number of quality courses ie: Berkshire / Swinley / both Sunningdales etc. doesn't do it justice.

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