The incomplete golf resume

[Phil McDade]

Huck:

Well, yes, I figured you for Pebble when I posted the question, so if you can make it to Wisconsin, I'll buy you a steaming bowl of cheese soup!

I jumped on the Bandon thing because one of the GCA regulars who came on the L/M Cheeseland tour (I think, if I recall this correctly) liked Trails the best of the three, which runs counter to the view many have about the order of those three. It was interesting to hear the argument for it, as it came in a discussion with another golfer about the Bandon courses.

[Jim Franklin]

Minnesota - The Quarry
Arizona - Saguaro

[Tom Huckaby]

Phil:  I shall gratefully accept the cheese soup.  Soup and I are good friends.

 

Now as for which Bandon course... I'd say it really doesn't matter - you just have to play one.  Of course the congoscenti here prefer Pacific in a huge way, but I've always been one to argue against that, saying the quality of all three courses is pretty damn close.  In the classic 10 round split, I have them 3-3-3 and flip a coin for the 4th... Ok maybe we give Pacific that 4th round... but to me it is that close.  All three are great.

So pin me down and I'll go with Pacific.  But I'm sure not gonna argue with anyone who says BD or Trails.  And yes, I have several friends who vehemently prefer BD over the other two.

TH

[Jim Franklin]

Wisconsin - Erin Hills (over Lawsonia)

[Gib_Papazian]

Pebble Beach (he sniffed) does not count as a "public" golf course. The fees are so obnoxious that the barrier of entry is closed to all without a corporate expense account and/or an understanding wife who does not object to the children living on Top Ramen for the remainder of the month.

Yeah, I know, "Gib, you are a rater and don't have to pay . . . . "

Except that I never never never go "rate" an expensive CCFAD unless it is assigned and a new or remodeled golf course. Otherwise, I am just like everybody else and we usually spend more money in the bar and pro shop than the damned green fees would have been in the first place.

It is ironic that my hobby of looking for inexpensive "hidden gems" predated the last five years of lunatic litigation. At one time, cost was not a factor, but now that it is, I have a much deeper appreciation for value . . . . . . I think many writers (and raters) are a little arrogant; when you have to peel three C-notes to put a peg in the grass somewhere, the perspective changes quick.

I used to write a "Road Trip" column every month whose purpose was to let readers on a budget know about golf experiences I'd discovered that were off the beaten path. It is kind of strange that I've become one of those readers.

So maybe let's change the question to this:

"What one AFFORDABLE golf course best communicates the texture and overall Chi' of golf in that state?"

California?: Barona Creek . . . . .

Nevada: Boulder Creek

Oregon: Eagle Point

[Tom Huckaby]

Gib:

I disagree.  Pebble must be played, and anyone can do so.  Yes it's grossly overexpensive... but still it can be done.  And it must be done.  No other public course in our state (or any other I'd say) stirs the imagination like that one.  Oh I know, the management sucks, pace of play blows, there are so many things to make one WANT to denigrate it... But the golf course still is what it is... and that's one of the 4-5 best on this planet.  Catch it early in the day, or on the rare uncrowded day (as I have and I know you have) and it's magic.  You know it... it's OK to say it.  

But I like your changing of the topic anyway.  One thing though:  how are you now going to explain the HUGE slap in the face you just gave to Rustic Canyon and it's legions of admirers in here?  And have you checked the prices at Barona lately?  I believe it's affordable only relative to Pebble....

Welcome back.

 

[Adam Clayman]

Shivas,
 While I agree with the sentiment, I think there is educational material to be gained from playing Cog Hill #4.
 Do we not learn more from mistakes than anything else?
It so easy to spout off about the greatness of Dubb's, for the masses, who likely don't know (or care) about what makes greatness.

[Gib_Papazian]

Huckster,

Bandon's courses are a lot of dough for the average shmoe Huck . . . . . especially by the time you pay for the rooms etc.

As for picking one . . . . . . I am going to take the contrarian point of view here. I worship Pac Dunes in more ways I suppose, but there is something about the original that remains closest to my heart.

I guess - and I've played it 20 times - there are so many little quirks and hidden pathways on Bandon that nobody seems to notice that it remains my favorite.

Now, in the interest of full disclosure, the last time I was there, I only saw Trails under construction. I got a really close look, but cannot make a definitive statement until I see it one more time.

[Matt MacIver]

FL should have several choices, but doesn't.  Sawgrass it is.  

[mark chalfant]

NY  Pine Ridge  (Forse)  in Coram, long island

Mass.  Sankaty Head    per Mike Sweeney, unsung seaside gem

Indiana:    Culver  brilliant routing by Langford

Cal :    Pasatiempo, one of the best back nines in the country

Pa.    Glen Mills  ( Bobby Weed)   scenery, strategy, stunning variety of golf holes and greens

[Gib_Papazian]

Huck,

I've not been to Barona in three years - so if the Indians have gotten too big for their teepee, then Rustic wins . . . . . and I LOVE Rustic . . . . but there is something about Barona that sticks with me. I think #4 is my favorite hole in Southern California.

[Tom Huckaby]

Gib:

Of course Bandon is damn expensive.  But if we allow Pebble (which I do) we darn well allow these.

As for Bandon Dunes, in the past I've had a a new ass torn for me for professing love for that course... you did pick a fine subject for a contrarian view!

As for Barona, hey I love it too... but these are now the fees:

Monday - Thursday  $120
Friday & Sunday $160
Saturday & Holidays  $200

So Rustic it is!

[Brad Tufts]

I'm finding this surprisingly difficult for the NE states.

I've divided it into two divisions:

Old low-key favorites:
MA: Franklin Park or George Wright (for the true Boston golf experiences)
RI: Triggs Memorial
CT: Richter Park? (haven't played)
VT: St. Johnsbury
NH: Balsams
ME: Kebo Valley

Upscale division:
MA: Red Tail
RI: Newport National
CT: Wintonbury Hills?
VT: Okemo
NH: Portsmouth
ME: Belgrad Lakes or The Ledges

Much heralded omissions I want you to notice:  Samoset, Great River, Equinox, Sugarloaf, Pinehills, Stow Acres, Mt. Washington, perhaps The Ranch and Lake of Isles too?

To the doubters....The courses I chose above are the ones ONE should have on their public-course resume.  I was going for the Brad-approved courses that ONE should see.  The omissions include some of the "accepted" courses to play.  Many of these are overrated, and well-known only due to their advertising budgets.  I'm not choosing my FAVORITE courses, I'm answering the question as originally asked...

I think we are looking for the ONE course that ONE should see if wanting a public-accessible round with the entire state at one's disposal.  I had trouble picking just one in Mass, as it's tough to compare, say, Triggs Memorial inside the city of Providence, Ross, municipal, a bit of scruff off to the sides with Newport National, upscale, well-manicured, farmland course with long views off-site.  However, Triggs is the place to go for the hardcore public golfer, where NN is where you take clients.

[Tim Pitner]

Dave,

Whatever you say--I was just reading what was written.  

Doug,

I won't argue with Broadmoor East over Riverdale.

[Evan Fleisher]

Evan:

Yes, resorts are eligible -- anything that anyone can actually get on (with enough cash...) without relying on access. I meant public in the broadest sense of the word.

P.S. How was Brown Deer?

Let's just say that it would NOT be the "must see" pick of Wisconsin.  

Pretty "pedestrian" in my book...

[Craig Sweet]

Montana....Phantom Hills...now called the Ranch Club...

close second, Curley's Canyon River

[Patrick Kiser]

How is Cuscowilla in GA not on here?  Can still get on as I understand.

Haven't played it though.  Katrina got in the way of things.

Everything I've read, heard, and seen here and elsewhere leads me to think this would be a must play public wise regardless of the state.

[Tom Roewer]

Ohio - Moundbuilders Country Club, Newark, OH.  A Bendelow design, arguably the one course on the most unique piece of ground.  The Hopewell Indians created a celestial observatory on the site  used for lunar ritual ceremonies.  There are mounds of multiple sizes and heights masquerading as cross bunkers at many angles, and also surrounding one green.(a great "punchbowl".  The scale is enormous and it's wonderful that it has been preserved.  I believe that the Ohio Historical Society leases the land to the club, and that they just set aside another day where the club closes for reenactment of the observation(s)

[Tom Roewer]

If interested there is more info @ - www.ohiohistory.org/about/pr/050707a.html       they also have a great logo which mimics the outline of the earthworks with MCC inside part of it.

[John Kavanaugh]

You can see everything Cuscowilla has to offer for much less money in Indiana at The Warren Course.  I like The Warren more because of the lack of houses and tourists.

[Bill Shamleffer]

I can not think of any Missouri public access course that is a "must play".

On the private side I would say St. Louis C.C. is the easy selection.

But if I was forced to pick one must play public course it may be Swope Park in Kansas City, MO.  I am not sure how much time Tillinghast actually spent on this design, but at least it has his fingerprints on it.  Although, I have not seen the course since it was "restored/improved".

Normandie in St. Louis would be my 2nd pick.

The old Forest Park 18 would have been an automatic for me.  And although the new layout is a better course, the old 18 was so quirky, but had so much history and so many stories that it really was a "must be on one’s golfing resume".  The result may be a permanent "incomplete resume" for those who never made the effort or had the opportunity to play the old Forest Park.

For the St. Louis golfer (thus including the Illinois counties surrounding St. Louis), I would select Annbriar as "must be on one’s golfing resume."

Having now relocated to New England, I strongly endorse Brad's picks of George Wright for Mass., and St. Johnsbury in VT.  St. Johnsbury is a hidden little treasure in the northern reaches of VT.

On a side note, it was nice to read that Rich Beem and his caddie played Triggs in RI a couples weeks ago.  I bet after playing Triggs in August he would not have any issues with having to play on the greens at East Lake this week.

[John Kavanaugh]

I would have to go with Glen Echo in St. Louis over StLCC given that other CBM's have already been named.  There is good reason the work of Foulis is now so rare.  A ditty from the blissfully incomplete My Home Course review on this site.  Please do not go to read it as the pictures are the worst I have ever seen..

Designed by the 1896 U.S. Open Champion Jim Foulis, and built by he and his brother Robert, Glen Echo is among a handful of great classic courses that have retained the charm and characteristics not found in many of today's 'modern' layouts. Robert would design and/or build over a dozen St. Louis area and midwestern courses, including the original Bellerive CC, Onwentsia in Chicago, Lake Geneva CC, Minikahda, Jefferson City CC, Sunset CC just to name a few. Jim, who was the first golf professional in the western U.S. when hired by C.B. Macdonald at the Chicago GC in 1894, designed such courses as the original St. Louis CC, Denver CC and several in the Chicago area. Born and raised in St. Andrews, Scotland, the brothers were taught their craft by none other than Old Tom Morris as Robert worked in his shop for years and it was Old Tom who gave him his first design contract in the early 1890's for a nearby club. It was also Old Tom who Charles Blair Macdonald contacted looking for a professional for his new Chicago GC. Old Tom initially recommended Robert, but when he respectfully declined, Jim came in his place. Robert followed shortly in 1895 and his first contract was the nine holes at Lake Forest GC, Onwentsia today.

[Bill Shamleffer]

I would have to go with Glen Echo in St. Louis over StLCC given that other CBM's have already been named.  There is good reason the work of Foulis is now so rare.  A ditty from the blissfully incomplete My Home Course review on this site.  Please do not go to read it as the pictures are the worst I have ever seen..

Designed by the 1896 U.S. Open Champion Jim Foulis, and built by he and his brother Robert, Glen Echo is among a handful of great classic courses that have retained the charm and characteristics not found in many of today's 'modern' layouts. Robert would design and/or build over a dozen St. Louis area and midwestern courses, including the original Bellerive CC, Onwentsia in Chicago, Lake Geneva CC, Minikahda, Jefferson City CC, Sunset CC just to name a few. Jim, who was the first golf professional in the western U.S. when hired by C.B. Macdonald at the Chicago GC in 1894, designed such courses as the original St. Louis CC, Denver CC and several in the Chicago area. Born and raised in St. Andrews, Scotland, the brothers were taught their craft by none other than Old Tom Morris as Robert worked in his shop for years and it was Old Tom who gave him his first design contract in the early 1890's for a nearby club. It was also Old Tom who Charles Blair Macdonald contacted looking for a professional for his new Chicago GC. Old Tom initially recommended Robert, but when he respectfully declined, Jim came in his place. Robert followed shortly in 1895 and his first contract was the nine holes at Lake Forest GC, Onwentsia today.

John,

Excellent catch to nominate Glen Echo.  This is another hidden gem.  The members of Glen Echo should be happy that this course is not so well known, so that lots of strangers are not trying to get access.

[Patrick Kiser]

Hmmm...  Other semi-private CCs in GA?  Certainly not public.  Right?

The question to me sounded like this:  your public golfing experience in state X is incomplete if you haven't played course Y.

So I think CCs would be out.  At least it would appear so to me.

Similarly, last time I checked there isn't a county of Indiana in Georgia.  So Warren would be out.

I think if I went back to GA, I'd have to make Cuscowilla a must stop from a public standpoint.  Granted it's sort of semi-private, but I don't know of too many CCs where I'd get on without being a guest or something.

How is Cuscowilla in GA not on here?  Can still get on as I understand.

My guess would be that there's nothing at Cuscowilla that you can't find at other C & C courses.  But I haven't played it.

[Mark Bourgeois]

I think the driver of an education / resume ought to be things like styles and uniqueness, whereas states -- specifically, one per state, acts more like a constraint.

Oakhurst in WV, for an understanding of what the play of golf once was like, and how the architectural features of the day related to that play.

Royal New Kent in VA, because it is similar to the architectural mode of desert courses: it redefines what you think can be done with the land.  It shows you the "portability" (and limits -- this course is not very walkable!) of design concepts, in this case "Irish links" over Virginia ravines. Also because it ought to teach you not to play by the card but by the land. (If you need the crib note on that: look at slope and rating -- move up one set of tees!)

Speaking of scale: Bethpage Black in NY.

Pinehurst #2 in NC, because: A) you don't have to use length or narrow playing corridors to defend par; B) it is possible to build a course for the enjoyment *and challenge* of all; C) angles still count for something; D) it's a great walk.

Harbour Town in SC, because of similarities and differences in its answers to the questions posed of Pinehurst #2.

I would include a "knockoff" course somewhere in there, because it shows the importance of place, sort of the architectural equivalent of in media res, to design, while at the same time helping you realize the importance of judging the playing characteristics of the hole and not just the views.  Also, an "obverse" lesson in routing.  So maybe the Ross course at Boyne (MI), Renditions in MD, or Bear's Best in GA.

Shadow Creek in NV, because at the end of the day a golf course is a manmade artifact, no matter what the marketing brochures say -- and the quality of the course is not solely a function of the land but of man's hand.

Sheep Ranch in OR, because even though a course is a manmade artifact, that doesn't mean nature should be ignored, much less fought any more than necessary. (There is such a thing as an architect doing too much!)

Pasatiempo in CA, because everyone ought to know something about Alister MacKenzie, and if you can't or won't travel overseas, and don't have really good connections, this is your best shot!

I wish I could add some examples of sterling routing like Linville or Cascades, but those states are taken. What are good candidates from states not already taken?

Mark

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