Tom Doak politely ask me to-------

[TaylorA]

Since I know nothing other than what I see in the picture, I'll just comment that the backdrop is stunning. Just a beautiful piece of property.

[RJ_Daley]

I'm coming to the conclusion it is indeed 10.  If you look at the topo, the knob or hogsback is thre in what would be the area of the right FW, the ravine comes in from the right, and the tee in the background is 11.  If it were 14, I think you would see the FW already after the carry across native, and I don't think TD would route the service or cart path there where you see it.  I don't see as much contour at the turning point of 14 to be this hole.  The creek and tree line down to the tree line, creek and ravine run in behind the green from right to left.

[RJ_Daley]

I'm puzzled that you can't make out 8 green if it is 10.  You should be able to see it or a hint of it down there.  Is this a problem of safety if it is indeed 10?

[W.H. Cosgrove]

I don't know where #8 is but that has to be 10.  Tee shot to the right of the fairway bunkers.  2nd shot either safely to the left or heroically over the ravine for the eagle try.  

OK guys which way would you go?  I'm going to play it safe down the left and make birdie after a 1 putt.

[John Kavanaugh]

There is no way that bunkers would naturally erode at a bottom of a hill with that shape or back rough edge.  This picture just made my lunch back half way up my throat.

[Garland Bayley]

There is no way that bunkers would naturally erode at a bottom of a hill with that shape or back rough edge.  This picture just made my lunch back half way up my throat.

John,

You are making assumptions about the topography that are not readily discernible from the picture given.

[Garland Bayley]

I'm coming to the conclusion it is indeed 10.  If you look at the topo, the knob or hogsback is thre in what would be the area of the right FW, the ravine comes in from the right, and the tee in the background is 11.  If it were 14, I think you would see the FW already after the carry across native, and I don't think TD would route the service or cart path there where you see it.  I don't see as much contour at the turning point of 14 to be this hole.  The creek and tree line down to the tree line, creek and ravine run in behind the green from right to left.

Dick,

If you believe the topo lines on the map, then please explain the gravity defying nature of Rock Creek that runs through the property.

[Tony_Muldoon]

It's had to comment without having some idea of distance.  Is the photographer standing on the tee?

As someone who is used to laying up, I look at this as a severe downhill shot and wonder how far back I have to land to be sure of staying out of those bunkers.  It all looks wrong, laying up seems the riskier option.

[Mark Bourgeois]

This is his homage to Pebble #8, right?

[SPDB]

Seems more like a mirror image (at least the second shot) of PV #13

[Jordan Wall]

I wonder if Mr. Farrow has anything to say about this hole...

It looks awesome...the bunkers are postitioned nicely and I love how the fairway tumbles.

[John Kavanaugh]

I wonder if Mr. Farrow has anything to say about this hole...

It looks awesome...the bunkers are postitioned nicely and I love how the fairway tumbles.

Jordan,

Why do you like the positioning of the bunkers and what else does a hill do but tumble...Have you got to Jack and Jill yet in school?

[Garland Bayley]

Ron,

Are you a lefty, or is that a nasty hook you have there?
 

[RJ_Daley]

JK, I get where you are coming from on the non-naturalistic placement and look of the bunkers.  I guess that you have to decide what other sort of hazard could you possibly have to utilize throughout the golf course if not sand bunkers.  They don't likely exist in that sort of foothill western territory.   You basically have your native grasses, and a few scrub pine, sage, and hardscrabble rock.  I think you have to make concessions to strategy and traditional golf design.  Thus, you turn to the age old sand bunker.  I think the photo suggests a starker bright sand than I would have spec'd.  But the placement has to be a compromise to naturalism or you don't really have a conventional or marketable golf course, IMHO.

[John Kavanaugh]

I'm guessing those bunkers serve a larger purpose of preventing someone from driving a cart over a cliff than any golf strategy.  I see zero value in them being flashed up in a "Hey!!! look at me I'm a Doak bunker!" fashion.

[Joe Hancock]

JK, I get where you are coming from on the non-naturalistic placement and look of the bunkers.  I guess that you have to decide what other sort of hazard could you possibly have to utilize throughout the golf course if not sand bunkers.  

What about tumbling hills as a hazard? That must be what is already there, because the description has been uttered at least a couple times already.

I don't mind the bunkers, I'm just reminding that contour alone can be all the challenge a hole needs. I am not smart enough to second guess Tom by saying this particular hole is an example of my reminder. Plus, I haven't been there to experience the contours.

Joe

[John Kavanaugh]

You have to ask yourself why Doak asked for this picture to be posted.  I doubt if it was to generate lot sales.  How are we gonna get him out of his rating rut if we don't offer the kid a little help.  If he needs his ass kissed he will just give Urbina another more important sounding title.

[RJ_Daley]

JK again, I don't totally disagree with you on this.  But, I think the bunkers may also scream:  "hey ditzwad, there is a deep ass rocky ravine over hear, full of rattlers, and potentially twisted ankles, and my screaming flashed up bunker face, so beware!"  

[Dan Kelly]

I really want to know what Tom Doak has to say about this hole, and why it needs so many and such big bunkers.

[Michael Robin]

This looks like 10, photographed from somewhere up near the 11th green. The tee as I remember from early in its construction is far to the right where you can see a suggestion of fairway in this photo. Also, the bunkers that look like cross-bunkers I think are actually on the left side of the fairway and blocking our view of a very steep drop in the fairway that leaves the player that is laying up on this par 5 an approach that is to a very elevated green, whereas the player that is going for it in two has a better look, but must deal with the risks of the ravine on the right.

Tom or Ryan, am I in the ballpark?

[Gary_Mahanay]

I'm with Garland.  Looks like 14 because of the shadows from the trees and gator that this hole is playing toward the northeast.  From the up and back mowing pattern of the fairway, it looks to have quite a bit more room on the right side at the bottom of the hill than what the picture may show.  If you favor those first bunkers it may give you a better look at the green than blowing it way right and still being in the fairway with a more restricted view at the bottom of the hill.

[RJ_Daley]

I think it is basically an exercise in lining up the centerline of play to the turning point and figuring out the angle.  Look at the given topo lines, and then figure the zoom is distorting the distance.  

Why did TD ask Farris "kindly" to post it for comment.  

  a. to generate buzz
  b. to demonstrate photo distortion
  c. to make a point that the armchairs are full of B.S.
  d. all of the above to edumacate the masses

*** or he just won a drunken bet in some cowboy bar in Red Lodge based on the above.

 

[Garland Bayley]

...
*** or he just won a drunken bet in some cowboy bar in Red Lodge based on the above.

 

I know you city folk have a bit of trouble with the small western burgs, but it is Deer Lodge, not Red Lodge.
 

[JESII]

I don't think there is any chance that second fairway up to the left is part of the same hole as the front fairway there...doesn't the hole go down and to the right over that ridge? Picture must be from well left of the teeing line...

[Garland Bayley]

I don't think there is any chance that second fairway up to the left is part of the same hole as the front fairway there...doesn't the hole go down and to the right over that ridge? Picture must be from well left of the teeing line...

Somebody should let you people know that Tom does wide fairways. There is only one fairway shown, and as Gary and I agree, it is the 14th.