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[Jeff_Brauer]

Random lunch time noodlings:

Is the final product of the golf course architect more influenced by the "here and now" need to solve specific on site problems, or do they design with an eye towards what history will think?

What do you think?

[Jay Flemma]

In certain circumstances, yes.  You can bet your last dollar that Strantz knew he had to deliver the goods at MPCC with the place sandwiched neatly between Cypress and Pebble.

Same for Doak and Jack at Sebonack.  They even admit it in the "Making of sebonack video."

[Eric Franzen]

Another design in line with Jay's examples would be The Castle Course in St Andrews.

An excerpt from the book "The Seventh at St Andrews":

Try as he might to convince himself this was just another job, that if he did not get this there would be others, Kidd knew in his mind and in his heart and with every stitch of his soul that such thinking was complete and total shite.  The commission to design the first new championship golf course for St. Andrews in nearly a century was simply beyond comparison.  Pebble Beach and Augusta National are treasures to be sure, but neither comes close to the history, aura, and spirit that envelop St. Andrews.  To Kidd, the only other place that maybe, just maybe, might present such a once in any lifetime opportunity to create something special and lasting was the moon.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Jay,

Good examples.  I haven't been in those situations, but expect that I probably would have similar thoughts.  Of course, and unfortunately, Strantz probably was aware that MPCC was going to be his legacy in other ways, as well.


That said, I would love to hear a bit from Tom about how they did that. I know they wouldn't want to copy either NGLA or SH, but try to create something complementary and different, but of similar - or actually greater quality, given the historic head start the other two have, to make them be considered equal, or nearly so.

I guess the real question in my mind is, can you design well when you are thinking of things outside of site factors?  For any bunker or green at Sebonack, how does it distract to not only be considering the best, most site specific solution, while adding in the factor of "how do we make it different than next door?"

I wonder if its similar to playing in the Super Bowl.  Don't the players play best when they kind of forget that its the big game, and consider it "just another game?"

[Joel_Stewart]

Good question.   I'm not sure historic or significant golf course is taken into account at least with the advent of golf course communities.  I have to believe most architects that walk the ground of certain sites know if his course is going to be relevant.

Lets take Wildhorse in California as an example.  When you designed the course did you consider the course could be historic or a relevant course?

 

[Jay Flemma]

Hey Jeff!  I just praised your restoration skills in a cybergolf piece (I had Dornick on my mind!)

I agree re:  Mike and MPCC.  He knew.  He told Forrest after he finished that "why do I think I've run out of golf holes?"

As for the super bowl, I know this - the Pittsburgh Steelers all admitted they were NERVOUS AS HELL for the first part of that game!  It showed, but they won.  

I know Ryan, I know...you thnk you got had.  So does your frumpy coach.  Well you just got spanked again, so you have nothing to say.

[Michael Dugger]

I would hope you golf course architects never "mail it in."

I don't care if you are building next to Pebble Beach or a garbage dump, anytime someone is tinkering with planet earth they ought to do so with the utmost respect, giving their full attention to the task at hand.

[Michael Dugger]

Lets take Wildhorse in California as an example.  When you designed the course did you consider the course could be historic or a relevant course?

Yeah, Jeff, what was going through your head with Wildhorse

[Ryan Farrow]

Hey Jeff!  I just praised your restoration skills in a cybergolf piece (I had Dornick on my mind!)

I agree re:  Mike and MPCC.  He knew.  He told Forrest after he finished that "why do I think I've run out of golf holes?"

As for the super bowl, I know this - the Pittsburgh Steelers all admitted they were NERVOUS AS HELL for the first part of that game!  It showed, but they won.  

I know Ryan, I know...you thnk you got had.  So does your frumpy coach.  Well you just got spanked again, so you have nothing to say.

Jay aren't you confusing me with Jordan? thats ahhhhh, come on Jay. I'M FROM PITTSBURGH!!!!

And I already gave Jordan crap, he was speechless. But we did loose to the Cards last week.

[Kyle Harris]

Apparently, Pittsburgh WAS WHO THEY THOUGHT THEY WERE!

[Tom_Doak]

I don't know what everyone thinks I said on the Sebonack video, but what I remember saying was that we all understood it was a special site and that we ought to make the most of that site.

To me, that's site-specific, not designing for history.