2 FedEx Questions?

[Bill Shamleffer]

How come I can not find any information listing the breakdown of the $35 million deferred comp?  Other than being told the winner will get $10,000,000, I can not find any information per the rest of the breakdown.  Why does the PGA Tour not want to disclose these details?

Second, how come the PGA Tour site no longer has any listing of the original FedEx point’s list right before Westchester?  Do they not want it to be obvious about how little change there has been through these first three events?  Or am I wrong (how can I know since this list no longer exists online)?  If there has been some significant movement in to the top 30 in the past three weeks, how come the PGA Tour is not publicizing these movements?

If the PGA Tour believes in the FedEx Cup, then does it not seem odd that they are not publicizing the amount of "bonus" money available for other positions?  Does it not also seem odd to NOT be publicizing the players that played their way from out of the top 30 and into the Tour Championship through their fine play in the first 3 "play-offs"?  It seems to me those should be stories that the PGA Tour should be proud to talk about to show that these first three events were relevant.

[Mike Benham]

I count more than 2 questions ...

[Bill Shamleffer]

I count more than 2 questions ...

Only 2 questions: 1. Why does the PGA Tour not list the breakdown of the "bonus money"?; 2. Why does the PGA not list the original FedEx points standings from right before Westchester?

The remaining of my posting relates to those two questions.  No matter if one likes the FedEx or does not like the FedEx, and granting that any new format will take a few tries to get right, it does seem that the PGA Tour is doing a very poor job of publicizing what they say this event is to be all about.  If these are play-offs, who played their way in and who got knocked out?

Also, what is everyone playing for?  For instance if #2 gets $5,000,000, #3 get $4,000,000, and #4 gets $3,500,000, and #5 gets $3,000,000 (I have no idea the correct breakdown), and if only about 4 players can pass Tiger this weak, then Tiger may now only be playing for $5,000,000 or $6,000,000 if he already a lock for at least third.

But none of this is explained by the PGA Tour.  They only talk about the number of points, but not that much about the cumulative improvement by any specific players over the last three weeks, or about the actual bonus pool available to each position.

[Kalen Braley]

All found on PGATour.com

This discusses some of the guys who just barely made it:
http://www.pgatour.com/2007/tournaments/r028/09/09/fec090907/index.html

Other articles about the biggest movers:
http://www.pgatour.com/2007/r/playoffs/09/09/BMW/index.html
http://www.pgatour.com/2007/tournaments/r505/09/01/sean/index.html
http://www.pgatour.com/2007/tournaments/r505/09/02/gore_round3/index.html
http://www.pgatour.com/2007/tournaments/r505/09/02/gloverblog090207/index.html
http://www.pgatour.com/2007/tournaments/r505/09/02/gloverblog090207/index.html
http://www.pgatour.com/2007/tournaments/r028/09/04/donald_immelman/index.html

Here is information on the point structure before they played the first tournament, including points break down
http://www.pgatour.com/2007/r/playoffs/08/21/fan_guide/


As for exact money payouts, I can hardly ever find those for any tournament, so it doesn't strike me as odd that you can't find the exact numbers for this one.  But I'm guessing it'll be something less than $10 Mill..  

So I think I answered most of your questions, and every article is from the official PGATour.com site.  What else would you suggest they put up there??

[cary lichtenstein]

I read a bunch of the projected numbers somewhere, only the winners numbers, and they were dependent upon the age of the winner and estimates projected return of the $10 million.

I think for a 30 year old, it was something like $35 or 45 Million at age 55 or 65.

That sure is a whole bunch of money!!!!!!!!!!!!

But you are correct, the guy who finishes 10th, who knows

[Kalen Braley]

I count more than 2 questions ...

Only 2 questions: 1. Why does the PGA Tour not list the breakdown of the "bonus money"?; 2. Why does the PGA not list the original FedEx points standings from right before Westchester?

The remaining of my posting relates to those two questions.  No matter if one likes the FedEx or does not like the FedEx, and granting that any new format will take a few tries to get right, it does seem that the PGA Tour is doing a very poor job of publicizing what they say this event is to be all about.  If these are play-offs, who played their way in and who got knocked out?

Also, what is everyone playing for?  For instance if #2 gets $5,000,000, #3 get $4,000,000, and #4 gets $3,500,000, and #5 gets $3,000,000 (I have no idea the correct breakdown), and if only about 4 players can pass Tiger this weak, then Tiger may now only be playing for $5,000,000 or $6,000,000 if he already a lock for at least third.

But none of this is explained by the PGA Tour.  They only talk about the number of points, but not that much about the cumulative improvement by any specific players over the last three weeks, or about the actual bonus pool available to each position.

Bill,

I hope your not losing sleep over who get $3 mill and who gets $5 mill???  

After all its just bonus money to supplement what they get for playing in the tournament.  I can understand the jealousy angle, but if thats the case, then you should be on the range and not in here to prepare yourself to go on tour...  

[Bill Shamleffer]

All found on PGATour.com

This discusses some of the guys who just barely made it:
http://www.pgatour.com/2007/tournaments/r028/09/09/fec090907/index.html

Other articles about the biggest movers:
http://www.pgatour.com/2007/r/playoffs/09/09/BMW/index.html
http://www.pgatour.com/2007/tournaments/r505/09/01/sean/index.html
http://www.pgatour.com/2007/tournaments/r505/09/02/gore_round3/index.html
http://www.pgatour.com/2007/tournaments/r505/09/02/gloverblog090207/index.html
http://www.pgatour.com/2007/tournaments/r505/09/02/gloverblog090207/index.html
http://www.pgatour.com/2007/tournaments/r028/09/04/donald_immelman/index.html

Thank you for these links.  I had seen that each week the PGA Tour would discuss who moved up enough to move on, and who dropped out.  However, I have not yet seen a single article or graphic showing those who moved up the most from before Westchester, through the end of Chicago.  Perhaps I am the only one interested in the cumulative upgrade of any individual players.

Here is information on the point structure before they played the first tournament, including points break down
http://www.pgatour.com/2007/r/playoffs/08/21/fan_guide/

I have seen this list.  I was hoping to see a list of the actual golfers at the re-set points prior to Westchester.  This list only gives the points breakdown, but does not give how the players were ranked.

As for exact money payouts, I can hardly ever find those for any tournament, so it doesn't strike me as odd that you can't find the exact numbers for this one.  But I'm guessing it'll be something less than $10 Mill..  

The breakdown of money is about the same for all PGA events, 18% for the winner, 10.8% for runner-up, and so on.  I was curious if the breakdown for the bonus pool was similar or different.

So I think I answered most of your questions, and every article is from the official PGATour.com site.  What else would you suggest they put up there??

I am thankful for your response.  It is likely my interest in trivial details is the reason I can not find the the answers I am searching for.  Likely the general public has no desire or need for this inconsequential information.

[Pete_Pittock]

Courtesy of wikipedia. Scroll down to bottom for the distribution.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_point_distributions_of_the_FedEx_Cup#FedEx_Cup_reward_distribution

[Bill Shamleffer]

All found on PGATour.com

This discusses some of the guys who just barely made it:
http://www.pgatour.com/2007/tournaments/r028/09/09/fec090907/index.html

Actually this article did have some interesting additional details.  It does state that each in the top 5 will receive a minimum of $1,000,000, and also that the $35,000,000 bonus pool is paid to the top 144.

I appreciate that Tiger has been a substantial boost to the PGA Tour, but it is amazing that over 40% of this pension distribution will go to just the top 5 golfers.  That is an amazingly lopsided distribution.  In addition, the fix was on before anyone teed off at Westchester.  Anyone not already in the Top dozen already was almost guaranteed of being the group of 139 sharing less than 60%, while the top five shared the other 40%.  Thus the average amount of pension distribution to the top 5 will be more than 18 times the average amount of pension distribution to this "bottom 139".

[Kalen Braley]

Bill,

Welcome to the American way....I would expect no different in golf.  

Of course those who defend the payout structure will claim its to properly incentivise everyone to play thier best.. I'm sure some might even argue it should be a winner take all payout...

[Pete_Pittock]

Bill,
This was the Fedex standings before the playoffs, courtesy of the Golf Channel. The PGA Tour site also has the same list.
http://www.thegolfchannel.com/core.aspx?page=13201&select=112

[Bill Shamleffer]

Courtesy of wikipedia. Scroll down to bottom for the distribution.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_point_distributions_of_the_FedEx_Cup#FedEx_Cup_reward_distribution

Wikipedia, can sometime be such a great resource!  Thank you for that link.

Although I stand by my comments in the above posts, I do also realize that none of this has any bearing on my life nor should it affect me.  In addition, #144 on the PGA Tour will have a hell of better year than I do for both gross pay and for pension accumulation.  I will trade my financial year for his right now.

[Bill Shamleffer]

Bill,
This was the Fedex standings before the playoffs, courtesy of the Golf Channel. The PGA Tour site also has the same list.
http://www.thegolfchannel.com/core.aspx?page=13201&select=112

THAT'S WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR!

Interestingly only three players moved in to the top 30 over the past three weeks.  Tim Clark from #36, Brett Wetterich from #50, and Camilo Villegas from #52.  It seems like the PGA Tour should be selling these three as the Cinderalla stories in Atlanta.

[Kalen Braley]

Bill,
This was the Fedex standings before the playoffs, courtesy of the Golf Channel. The PGA Tour site also has the same list.
http://www.thegolfchannel.com/core.aspx?page=13201&select=112

THAT'S WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR!

Interestingly only three players moved in to the top 30 over the past three weeks.  Tim Clark from #36, Brett Wetterich from #50, and Camilo Villegas from #52.  It seems like the PGA Tour should be selling these three as the Cinderalla stories in Atlanta.

Why?

Its not like they can win the whole enchilada, they're already mathmatically eliminated..  

[Bill Shamleffer]

Bill,
This was the Fedex standings before the playoffs, courtesy of the Golf Channel. The PGA Tour site also has the same list.
http://www.thegolfchannel.com/core.aspx?page=13201&select=112

THAT'S WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR!

Interestingly only three players moved in to the top 30 over the past three weeks.  Tim Clark from #36, Brett Wetterich from #50, and Camilo Villegas from #52.  It seems like the PGA Tour should be selling these three as the Cinderalla stories in Atlanta.

Why?

Its not like they can win the whole enchilada, they're already mathmatically eliminated..  

Only a guy who works in the insurance industry could find it interesting that three guys were able to boost their pension credits.

OK I am done, and I will now try to go get a life.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

FedEx payoff to player's retirement accounts:

1 $10 million
2 $3 million
3 $2 million
4 $1.5 million
5 $1 million
10 $500,000
30 $175,000
70 $110,000
144 $32,000

From Sal Johnson at golfobserver.com

[Jim Nugent]

So after 25 years, even the last place finisher stands to make $3 million, assuming only a 20% annual compound return.  Not quite the cool billion Tiger nearly makes if he wins, but still a nice little bonus for your retirement years.  

[Kalen Braley]

Interesting article on ESPN....

http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/columns/story?columnist=sobel_jason&id=3014507&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab3pos2