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John Kirk

  • Total Karma: 3
Re:Tree Species
« Reply #25 on: September 08, 2007, 12:17:33 AM »
Slag,

My favorite golf trees are native deciduous specimen trees.  Just one big tree can guard a corner and change hole strategy, while providing interest and beauty.

I am quite taken with native oaks dotting golden foothills in California.  Valley oaks and live oaks.  I also am extremely fond of the shore pine/madrone forest at Bandon Dunes.

My sentimental favorite tree is the coast redwood, sequoia sempervirens, since there were a few in my yard growing up.  However, it wouldn't make a suitable golf course tree.  They leave a toxic bed of needles and cones underneath.

Whatever is native to the area works best for me.  Oak, maple, elm, cherry, aspen, birch...so many to choose from.  The TEPaul "big world" theory applies here.

I like non-native specimen trees much less.

Pete_Pittock

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Tree Species
« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2007, 12:53:42 AM »
Ti trees (Cordylite australis).

Willows are a no go. And Garland would insist that they be sheared for recovery purposes. ;D

Another loser is the Russian Olive (elaeagnus angustifolia) thrives in drought/alkaline soil, but its water signature is stupendous.) There are so many along the North Platte there is serious discussion of axing them as they crowd out native species.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2007, 12:58:47 AM by Pete_Pittock »

John Kirk

  • Total Karma: 3
Re:Tree Species
« Reply #27 on: September 08, 2007, 01:29:09 AM »
Michael,

We're pals, but the eucalyptus is a big California mistake.  It was originally brought over from Australia as fast growing timber, but failed as a timber tree.  They're very messy, but they smell quite nice, like camphor.

Brett Hochstein

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Tree Species
« Reply #28 on: September 08, 2007, 01:58:13 AM »
whatever's native to the site/area, doesn't interfere with play (though strategy with trees can be implemented sparingly), and adds to the look and feel of a course

don't have a particular favorite tree but a few i can think of off the top of the ole razoodock:

white pine(i think. it's been a while) #1 pilgrim's run
red oak #7 wabeek (don't care if everone hates this hole, i grew to (gasp!) like it)
southern pine (pardon my ignorance to the high-zone species) #1
pinehurst no. 3
oak stand #6 newman municipal (ithaca)
"From now on, ask yourself, after every round, if you have more energy than before you began.  'Tis much more important than the score, Michael, much more important than the score."     --John Stark - 'To the Linksland'

http://www.hochsteindesign.com

Bradley Anderson

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Tree Species
« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2007, 11:24:54 AM »
It's hard to go wrong when you plant native trees. In Chicago that includes Oaks, Hickories, and Maples. But care must be taken to plant the trees in the right environment, particularly with sugar maples as they tend to only do well on the tops of mounds and hills. In areas where the topsoil is deep and also moist for prolonged periods, the sugar maple roots are content to remain close to the trunk and eventually they begin to girdle and choke the tree.

Oaks and hickories can be messy at times, but no more so than any other tree. One benefit of using the oaks and the hickories is a greater effect can be achieved with less trees, owing to the great size that they are able to achieve.

Oaks and hickories have gotten a bad rap for being slow growers, but they may actually grow as fast as any other tree with good care in the early years.

Norbert P

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Tree Species
« Reply #30 on: September 09, 2007, 02:56:23 PM »
 It's good to hear that many here echo the importance of "appropriate" and "native" species.  I do have a question about the parameters of acceptability of what native is.

The Dawn Redwood (Metasequoia glytostroboides) was discovered in the 1940's in China.  Fossils were previously found in America that give provenance to their existence here.  Seeds were brought over post haste upon their discovery, planted at Hoyt Arboretum in Portland, Oregon, and within several years, cones were ripening and seeds were propagated.  Thus the tree, after being absent for eons, was reintroduced into a previous domain.

  The Maidenhair Tree (Ginkgo biloba) has a similar history.  An ancient species that gree throughout the world, was apparently a rather dominant species during the time of Pangeae (one big continent - prior to tectonic drifts.  So, now it is reintroduced.  This is a beautiful tree with a brilliant glow of gold in Autumn; with longer leave stems for good wind action.  Though only the male gender is generally sold, as the female tree is messy and unpleasantly aromatic, IMH it is welcome in my book in the appropriate spots.

  So, like the ubiquitous horses in America, which are not native, but brought over (reintroduced) by the Conquistadores, these trees have the potential to be reaccepted into the fold of what is native.
So, by virtue of their past heritage, are these two trees examples of native species ?

A row of Ginkgo biloba  (caption edited for spelling typo)


G. biloba leaves and stems


« Last Edit: September 11, 2007, 06:03:52 PM by Slag Bandoon »
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

Jim Sweeney

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Tree Species
« Reply #31 on: September 10, 2007, 10:02:44 AM »
There are some bald cypress on courses in the mid-west, but they are ugly in the wintertime and IMO do not add anything and are "dirty" trees. Maples are a personal favorite as well as birches. Definitely stay away from Beeches; the roots are very shallow and spread to and even beyond the branches. Willows are pretty but again roots are an issue.

IMO stick with indiginous species.
"Hope and fear, hope and Fear, that's what people see when they play golf. Not me. I only see happiness."

" Two things I beleive in: good shoes and a good car. Alligator shoes and a Cadillac."

Moe Norman

Rich Goodale

Re:Tree Species
« Reply #32 on: September 10, 2007, 10:31:53 AM »

Eric Morrison

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Tree Species
« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2007, 12:55:06 PM »
Beeches can be nice if in a good location...
It is what it is.

Tony_Muldoon

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Tree Species
« Reply #34 on: September 11, 2007, 05:37:12 PM »
Pay no attention to Rich, he lives in a treeless country which once was rich with  forest. But Henry V111 'borrowed' their trees in much the same way that Westminster is currently 'borrowing' the oil.  (If that doesn’t get Alfie posting again...)

Thanks for the information on the Gingo, new to me of widespread and dominant it once was.  In the East I understand it is revered as a sacred tree.

(I have a Gingo story which I think demonstrates the foibles of man.  I have in the past worked a lot with a rather trendy London Architect. I believe I told him about the 'sacred' Gingo. One day I got a call from his secretary saying he'd just bought a new house and for his birthday, his wife had asked her to find a 'sacred' tree and plant it in the grounds for him as a surprise.  I provided a price and then it all went quiet.  When I next called I asked the secretary what happened to the urgent need for a Gingo? Oh she said, the next weekend they went for a walk around their new garden and discovered they already had two of them!)
2025 Craws Nest Tassie, Carnoustie.

Marty Bonnar

  • Total Karma: 10
Re:Tree Species
« Reply #35 on: September 11, 2007, 05:41:50 PM »
Now I know nobody likes a smartass smartypants smartaleck, but Ginkgo has, well, a 'k' in it... :)

Luv,
FBkD.

PS Tony, I KNOW you were just too polite to correkt... ;)
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Tony_Muldoon

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Tree Species
« Reply #36 on: September 11, 2007, 06:25:30 PM »
Mature specimen trees.


Artificial lips and junk trees distract from a beautiful Larch(?)


Look at the tree on the right!

2025 Craws Nest Tassie, Carnoustie.

Tony_Muldoon

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Tree Species
« Reply #37 on: September 11, 2007, 06:29:14 PM »
Markin wasn't it a Monty P sektch where a Kontestant called Alec kept Kalling out the right answer but was ignored by the questionmaster.  When Alec asked why? He was told "because nobody likes a smart Alec" ;)
2025 Craws Nest Tassie, Carnoustie.

Norbert P

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Tree Species
« Reply #38 on: September 11, 2007, 06:39:50 PM »
Tony, in pict # 2 that bunker really does look like a pair of lips.  The Larch . . .

I'm used to Larches drooping more in the branchlets but I haven't seen too many of that age.  Or is it the one in the far distance?

The Larch . . .  

 in pic 3, is that a truncated Deodara or Libani Cedar on the right?
« Last Edit: September 11, 2007, 06:41:00 PM by Slag Bandoon »
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

Norbert P

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Tree Species
« Reply #39 on: September 12, 2007, 02:46:55 PM »
Italian Stone Pine  (Pinus pinea) at Royal Kew Gardens



I hear that Kew recently added some new holes to the grounds - a Henry Moore exposition.  (oy)
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

Tony_Muldoon

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Tree Species
« Reply #40 on: September 12, 2007, 04:23:55 PM »
Slag I’m sorry but I can't identify that tree for you. All the pictures were taken at John O'Gaunt GC. The website tells us nothing apart from the clubhouse was built in 1851 and the course in 1948.There are many fine specimen trees and a great variety and I guess it may at one time have been an arboretum.  However a number of trees look more than 150 years old.

Although it looks truncated in the picture it had amazing presence and I did notice the shape at the time but it didn't feel like it was pruned or topped.  Unfortunately the club has planted many trees in between the magnificent specimens and surprise surprise last summer their green keeper of many years gave up the struggle and 'left by mutual consent'.
2025 Craws Nest Tassie, Carnoustie.

Norbert P

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Tree Species
« Reply #41 on: September 13, 2007, 02:19:44 AM »
... John O'Gaunt GC. ... the clubhouse was built in 1851 and the course in 1948.

 That is what I call a patient bunch of golfers.

Thanks Tony,

When we first got to Scotland, my lady and I went immediately through the hills from Glasgow to Ardrossan to catch a ferry for Arran.  I was amazed at the high crowns of the oaks (Quercus robur?).  The seasoned monarchs scattered amongst the barren pastureland looked surreal -- like Tolkien imaginations. Or Roger Dean artwork.

  Further north toward Skye, the tree stands began to look like tree farms - in efficient rows.  Perhaps Sitka Spruce. I know that they're trying to reforest the denuded land but the orderly monostands really disturbed me.  It's what happens when corporations grow trees. We do it too - removing everything and then replanting just what the lumber companies want to grow - with little diversification of species.

  John O'Gaunt , like you say, has some beautiful specimens, but they sure did fill the nooks.  

The Methuselah Tree  
Bristlecone Pine  (Pinus aristata var. longaeva)  
Estimated at about 5000 years old . . .  in California at a secret location (really).
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

Tony_Muldoon

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Tree Species
« Reply #42 on: September 13, 2007, 05:07:29 AM »


As previously reported discovered when a whole 'bush' area was stripped out at the Renaissance Club. Kudos to the machine operator who was sensitive enought to pause and ask if they really wanted this to go with all the rest.

Hopefully it will survive and thrive now it's stand alone.
2025 Craws Nest Tassie, Carnoustie.

Norbert P

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Tree Species
« Reply #43 on: September 14, 2007, 12:38:54 PM »
 Cool tree. (Scots Pine?) You can tell it's had a long struggle to get where it is today. We have a similar one here in Portland at the 17th of Columbia Edgwater CC that I wish I could find a picture of.  (My files are a rat's nest.)

Here's a picture of a historically golf industry-related tree ...

The Persimmon   ...


The Persimmon
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

igrowgrass

Re:Tree Species
« Reply #44 on: September 14, 2007, 11:05:30 PM »
These make great species....

Norbert P

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Tree Species
« Reply #45 on: October 19, 2007, 02:52:24 PM »
 Portmarnock, just outside Dublin, Ireland, has palm trees. I believe the main variety are Cordyline australis palms. I have only seen pictures in a book of this course and the trees but they do look interesting.

Any feedback as to their golf appropriateness in a land not native to these plants? Are they wisely placed?

The Cabbage Tree

The Cabbage Tree
« Last Edit: October 19, 2007, 02:58:58 PM by Slag Bandoon »
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

SPDB

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Tree Species
« Reply #46 on: October 19, 2007, 05:28:36 PM »
Slag:
The tree you reference is pictured here (from Portmarnock). It is not a palm tree, though, despite its appearance.  


Bill_McBride

  • Total Karma: 1
Re:Tree Species
« Reply #47 on: October 19, 2007, 05:35:04 PM »
Michael,

We're pals, but the eucalyptus is a big California mistake.  It was originally brought over from Australia as fast growing timber, but failed as a timber tree.  They're very messy, but they smell quite nice, like camphor.

They also produce a great mess of nuts and leaves, could be the messiest trees on the planet.

James Bennett

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Tree Species
« Reply #48 on: October 19, 2007, 06:10:39 PM »
Bill

Tasmanian Blue Gums are the worst.  They grow very tall very quickly (they love water), they drop bark and nuts, and they always look a little stressed.  I see them at my home course, at some of the sandbelt in Melbourne (some, not all, and in isolated spots) and I have seen them in Tasmania.  They are one species that even look average in their own native areas,

If they get over-planted, they seem to have a shorter life (perhaps 20 to 30 years).  However, if they are planted at a reasonable spacing, and near a reliable water source (eg between a tee and a green), well then you have a massive tree for a long time that will drop lot of crud on a daily basis!

James B
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

Tom_Doak

  • Total Karma: 10
Re:Tree Species
« Reply #49 on: October 19, 2007, 07:20:33 PM »
There are a few larch trees at The Renaissance Club ... we cleared a lot of them, but left a few in the stand of trees behind #7 green.  They are not a personal favorite.

My favorite golf tree ever was the American elm, because its arching habit allowed for low recovery shots.  Trees such as maples and oaks are beautiful at the edges of a course, but where they come into play they are a solid wall obstacle.

My least favorite tree of all on golf courses is the ubiquitous "Crimson King" maple which was a best-seller for nurseries for many many years (and probably still is).  I suppose having a couple on a course for a color accent would be okay, but I've seen courses which had them by the score.  I've probably taken out more of those trees for our consulting clients than any other variety.