St Andrews Beach

[James Bennett]

I think the meeting was postponed.  Other more pertinent matters to be attended to!

James B

[Mark_F]

Chris,

The meeting was postponed.

Last week an email was sent to the members by the aggrieved staff, together with contact details of the union official negotiating on their behalf.

The last thing the GCPL directors want is to face hostile shareholders armed with information, so they postponed the meeting, risibly stating that they didn't have the time to meet with shareholders as they attempt to negotiate finance arrangements, although, of course, they thought they had time last week, before the email was sent.

I was down there yesterday using up my bar tab.  I didn't see the course, but apparently the greens surrounds are now so thick that you can't chip through them, grass is tufting through the fairways, and the the greens are unputtable.

First round of the club championships slated to be played this weekend has been postponed.

It will be interesting to see what happens in the next few weeks. I have heard that the directors want $22 million for the place - clearly the LSD they experimented with at University in the 1970s is resulting in delayed hallucinations,  since the place would be lucky to be worth more than one quarter of that.

[Mike_Clayton]

Mark,

I walked a few holes today - the course is no where near as bad as you might think.
The greens have not been cut for 2 weeks but looked surprisingly puttable and the rest was very playable.
I have played tour events on worse conditioned courses that St AB - not in Australia though!

[Chris Kane]

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/golf-venture-takes-clubbing/2007/10/09/1191695909974.html

I can't see them selling many shares while their financial problems are on page 3 of the Age.

[Mark_F]

Chris,

Grounds staff returned to work yesterday - and were then sacked last night, with GC Operations, the company employing them, liquidated by the owners, GCPL. GCPL borrowed the money to pay them from the original landowner!

Not sure what is going to happen in the next few days, but the management are an utter and total disgrace. How they think anyone will ever work there again is beyond me.

The article in The Age is the best thing that could have happened - it will hopefully accelerate the demise of GCPL, as it surely means no one will ever invest in any of their projects, and the sooner these people are out of the golf club business, the better.

[Chris Kane]

Incredible stuff Mark.  So with no staff I presume the course won't be reopening in the coming days as suggested by the article?  

What happens next?

[Mark_F]

Chris,

I am not sure what happens next.

I can't imagine GCPL doing what they have without having another plan bubbling away, but I can't even begin to think what it could be. Perhaps they truly are having LSD flashbacks, as it is the only explanation I can think of.

Staff in the clubhouse were also sacked, so they need people there too.  GCPL's mishandling of the development is well known, but their course of action in dismissing the only people in the company who have performed their jobs means they are contemptible - Paul and Lisa in the clubhouse were terrific to have there, and John Geary and his crew have done the most amazing jobs under awful conditions.

I have heard several times that the course had a budget of around $1000 a week for course maintainenance, sans wages. Given GCPL's financial status,I wouldn't now be surprised if it were true.

[Danny Goss]

Its a terrible shame Mark. What an amazing mess. And I wonder why somebody would want to bail them out if they "have" to take on the current paid up members.
What is your (and other members) legal status with GCPL?

[Chris Kane]

Mark, I too wonder what any new plan would be, given that their problems are now very public knowledge.  No-one in their right mind would spend a penny there now.

The course conditions when I played there a month ago were absolutely superb, a real shame to think I might not play there again.

Has there been any word of a member's meeting?

[Mark_F]

Danny,

I imagine whoever buys the place would have to sell shares to get some return in, so I have always believed that current shares would be honoured, as no one will invest with the new owners otherwise.

There is plenty of talk about where we stand at the moment, but the problem is GCPL are carrying A LOT of debt, and although they believe the assets outweigh the liabilities, that is only because a sheam of Reflex is rather large.

Eg; they believe St Andrews Beach is worth around $20 million - I wouldn't imagine anyone else in Melbourne thinks it is worth much more than about $8 million tops.

Probably not the best time to be holding Westpac shares.

[Shane Gurnett]

Mark, what sort of representation or say do the members have in what is happening now? Is there any committee structure there or is it a case of following what the owners decide to do?

[Mark_F]

Chris,

There was supposed to be a meeting last week that was mysteriously cancelled once it became known that an email containing the facts was sent to the members by the concerned parties.

When I inquired last week, I was contemptuously informed that the directors had better things to do with their time than spend an hour or two meeting with us.

I am guessing there won't be one, as the directors don't like conflict, and at the moment, I imagine the bloodshed In Cato Street should a meeting be held would eclipse anything in "Scarface".

Shane,

It's a case of follow the owners.  There was some sort of committee set up I believe, but I am not sure who is on it. Mysteriously,I believe the directors, are, perhaps along with a crony or two, and someone who has been a member five minutes.

I'm off to start baking lamingtons now.

[Chris Kane]

I wonder how long it will take for a creditor to sue, given that the prospects of the club trading again are getting slimmer by the hour.  Apparently Doak is owed "at least $250,000".

[Tim Pitner]

Wow--what an incredible shame.  Living in Colorado, USA, I know nothing of the specifics, but it's hard to believe things could come to this.  I really hope things get resolved (for the members and for golf generally).  I love the look of the course.  

[ed_getka]

Mark,
   Sorry to hear of the mess down there. Fortunately the course being out of commission coincided with your injury. Hopefully by the time you have recovered the situation will have improved at the club. Best wishes.

[James Bennett]

Mark,
   Sorry to hear of the mess down there. Fortunately the course being out of commission coincided with your injury. Hopefully by the time you have recovered the situation will have improved at the club. Best wishes.

Yes Mark, good luck with the shoulder.

Otherwise, what can we say?  Nothing really.  Just disbelief.

James B

[Scott Coan]

I have often wondered how these big private clubs can survive out on the Mornington peninsula.  I always thought it was a "commutable" distance from the Melbourne CBD but it's really like 90 minutes drive, which would put it out of reach for hacks like me that are tied to CBD's.

Are there enough people that live and work out on Mornington to support these clubs or do most of the members have weekend homes that they head out to on weekends?

A group of us from NZ played out there last year and took in The National as well as St. Andrew's Beach.  To a man we were all in awe of the facilities and courses at National - 3 completely different courses and an incredible clubhouse.  I could play golf there for the rest of my days and be a pretty happer camper.

I would have to think that St. Andrew's Beach suffers immensely from being virtually next door to National.  I found it to be a very enjoyable track and the 2 course concept with a composite tournament 18 is a really cool idea that I hope comes to fruition.

I can see where National may not have much of a "club" atmosphere and my guess is that the members of St. A's are looking for that type of feel.  You can play all the golf you want but if you don't have the "boys" to enjoy it with then I suppose it gets a bit old.  

Here's hoping that a wealthy benefactor comes in and saves the day!

[Chris Kane]

Scott, some of the National members could answer better, but I know there are a lot of people who commute to the Peninsula every week: its 70-90 minutes.  There would be hundreds of members at the likes of RM, KH, Victoria, Metro, Commonwealth and Huntingdale who also play at the National (or Sorrento or St Andrews Beach).

One of the problems for St Andrews Beach was the timing - they launched not long after the National had expanded and sold an enormous number of memberships.  I suspect if they'd started five years earlier they might have sold a lot more shares and those members would be playing two courses with a clubhouse today.

[Mark_F]

Fortunately the course being out of commission coincided with your injury. Hopefully by the time you have recovered the situation will have improved at the club. Best wishes.

Ed;

Yes, it's funny how good God has been to me given I am an atheist. Thanks for your thoughts. I am at that very frustrating stage when the surgery has repaired significantly, I have some reasonable movement, but still basically can't do anything.  All I want to do is have a putt and chip on the carpet!

I feel for the rest of the members who are unable to play the course during a lovely patch of Spring weather when man should be nowhere else.

James;

Thanks very much. I appreciate your words.

Chris;

Doak would only be in the middle of the pack as far as creditors go.  There is at least one other owed much more than twice that amount, and I imagine someone else who was also owed something similar but was given a good in kind would be feeling quite nervous at the moment.

Scott;

It's an interesting proposition as to whether St Andrews Beach suffers from its proximity to The National, or whether there is a market for another two club development in that part of the world.

I know several members of St AB have homes or weekenders on the Peninsula, but a large number of members also live in town and come to play. I live 1 1/4 hours from the club, but most would be a little further than that.

A 90 minute drive is nothing in a car;on a sheep, it is probably a different matter.

Ultimately I don't think it matters that St AB is close to The National. The directors of St AB have only done three things right; 1)Appointing Tom Doak and Mike Clayton to design the courses; 2)Appointing John Geary as Superintendent, and 3) Establishing a different type of club to The National.  

Leaving aside the debate over which courses are better, I would never join The National because it is just not my type of club, which is not meant as a slur to them.  I know of many other St AB members who feel the same.  

[Mark Chaplin]

I do not know about Aussie law but certainly in the UK equity clubs have gone under and the existing members have had to pay whatever the new owners decree or clear their lockers out and leave. Sincerely hope that doesn't happen here to our Australian friends.

I was once told the only people to make money on a golf only development are the third owners, after the first two have lost fortunes.

   

[Bob_Huntley]

I do not know about Aussie law but certainly in the UK equity clubs have gone under and the existing members have had to pay whatever the new owners decree or clear their lockers out and leave. Sincerely hope that doesn't happen here to our Australian friends.

I was once told the only people to make money on a golf only development are the third owners, after the first two have lost fortunes.

   

Mark,

The old joke about the guy who was supposed to have a small fortune was asked how he came by it. His reply was that at one time it was a large fortune but he was told he could make money out of golf.

Bob

[Matt_Cohn]

How long can a course sit with no maintenance before it starts developing problems that would make its recovery difficult?

[James Bennett]

Well Matt, it depends what you put into the rebuild.

The Grand, a course on Australia's Gold Coast, went into disuse when first built (in the 80's I think), was then reincarnated in the 90's perhaps, and successfully 'tendered' to host and Australian Open.

More locally (for you), the Valley Club of Monteceito shut down the holes on the other side of Sheffield Drive in 1942, leaving 9 holes on the clubhouse side.  The closed holes were leased for livestock grazing and agricultural use during the latter stages of WW2.  The 10th fairway was used as a Victory Garden.

In September 1945 the Valley Club's Committee retained William Bell as architect, and by July 1946, the course had been restored (according to the Club, without departure from MacKenzie's original).

Perhaps this was the first significant 'restoration' of a golf club in GCA history.  However, it wasn't a few weeks, it was months of work.  I expect a similar requirement was needed at the Grand on Australia's Gold Coast.

James B

[Chris Kane]

http://www.awu.net.au/national/news/1192161176_15085.html

Quite extraordinary developments.

[George Pazin]

This is probably the saddest thread in all my years on golfclubatlas.