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Jeffrey Prest

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Naked par 3s
« on: September 05, 2007, 06:15:30 PM »
I'd welcome comments on the par 3 8th at the new Rocky Mount course in North Carolina (http://www.fordscolony.com/RockyMount/Golf/Virtual%20Tour.cfm).

Neither bunkers nor sand defend it, with the architect David Johnson relying simply on the hole's 228-yard length and Pinehurst-style run-off areas around the green to punish the errant tee shot.

You'll find his comments in full on my blog but the reason I mention it here is that I'm scratching my head as to other examples of par 3s that are both sand- and water-free, particularly on the famous courses. David himself has offered the 14th on Kiawah Island's Ocean Course as one example.

You're all going to humiliate me now by rattling off hundreds, I just know it...
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Roger Tufts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Naked par 3s
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2007, 08:14:41 PM »
#14 at Portrush, though it uses the wind and dunes very well.

Thinking of more...
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Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Naked par 3s
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2007, 08:21:58 PM »
There must be a million of these out there. 4000 sq. ft. green, 170 yards, exposed to the wind, and rolling off all sides.





Joe
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" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Jeffrey Prest

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Re:Naked par 3s
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2007, 08:22:33 PM »
Thanks for getting the ball rolling, Roger. I thought a few links holes might feature in this.
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Jeffrey Prest

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Naked par 3s
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2007, 08:24:19 PM »
Sorry, Joe. Holes in your back garden don't count... ;D
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Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Naked par 3s
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2007, 08:25:37 PM »
Quote from: Jeffrey Prest on September 05, 2007, 08:24:19 PM
Sorry, Joe. Holes in your back garden don't count... ;D

Guilty as charged. Let me see what else I have..... :)
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" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

CHrisB

Re:Naked par 3s
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2007, 08:37:23 PM »
How about the great 7th at Lawsonia (shown from the front-left side of the green):
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Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Naked par 3s
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2007, 08:47:45 PM »
Does this count?





Joe
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" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Naked par 3s
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2007, 08:49:17 PM »
I can't help you with sand- and water-free long par-3s on famous courses -- but see absolutely nothing wrong with the concept.

Of course, I'm a guy who thinks that, given the right land and the right architect, you could build a whole magnificent golf course with neither sand nor water.
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"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
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Doug Sobieski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Naked par 3s
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2007, 08:52:02 PM »
Quote from: Joe Hancock on September 05, 2007, 08:21:58 PM
There must be a million of these out there. 4000 sq. ft. green, 170 yards, exposed to the wind, and rolling off all sides.





Joe

Joe:

I bet that when the river rises, that hole is a killer  ;D

Sorry, that was cruel given what you've gone through, but I couldn't resist. I hope you accept my apology.  :-*
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Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Naked par 3s
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2007, 08:52:51 PM »
Quote from: Dan Kelly™ on September 05, 2007, 08:49:17 PM
I can't help you with sand- and water-free long par-3s on famous courses -- but see absolutely nothing wrong with the concept.

Of course, I'm a guy who thinks that, given the right land and the right architect, you could build a whole magnificent golf course with neither sand nor water.

Funny you mention that. I've been to very, very few famous courses, so my pictures are all homerized....

Joe
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" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Naked par 3s
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2007, 08:54:42 PM »
Doug,

When it floods, we make sure we have fun with it. Our third green is 2800 sq. ft. of very abrupt turtle back, and if the flood is bad enough, it leaves you with about 280 sq. ft. exposed. That's a tough shot from 220 yards, even for you!

Joe
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" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

RichMacafee

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Naked par 3s
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2007, 10:13:08 PM »
One of my all time favourites - 13th at Barwon Heads, only 130m (144yds).

http://www.bhgc.com.au/images/course/hole13.jpg

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"The uglier a man's legs are, the better he plays golf. It's almost law" H.G.Wells.

David Schofield

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Naked par 3s
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2007, 10:35:27 PM »
Quote from: Chris Brauner on September 05, 2007, 08:37:23 PM
How about the great 7th at Lawsonia

While it might meet the letter of what Jeffrey was asking (no bunkers, no water), I would consider Lawsonia's (seemingly) vertical faces to be "hazards" in their own right.  
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Tom Jefferson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Naked par 3s
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2007, 10:46:12 PM »
Rich Macafee,

Beautiful image of the hole and the land..thanks.

Where is Barwon Heads?

What else about the land/course/club is distinctive?

Tom
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the pres

Mike Sweeney

Re:Naked par 3s
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2007, 10:52:24 PM »
County Sligo #4

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James Bennett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Naked par 3s
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2007, 12:10:32 AM »
Quote from: Tom Jefferson on September 05, 2007, 10:46:12 PM
Rich Macafee,

Beautiful image of the hole and the land..thanks.

Where is Barwon Heads?

What else about the land/course/club is distinctive?

Tom

Tom

go to Ran's write-up in Courses by Country on this web-site.  Barwon Heads has a good one-page summary there that answers your questions, plus three David Scaletti photos (including Barwon Heads #13).  Barwon Heads is near Melbourne but on the Bellarine Peninsula, abutting Bass Strait.

James B
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RichMacafee

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Naked par 3s
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2007, 01:14:41 AM »
Quote from: Tom Jefferson on September 05, 2007, 10:46:12 PM
Rich Macafee,

Beautiful image of the hole and the land..thanks.

Where is Barwon Heads?

What else about the land/course/club is distinctive?

Tom

Tom,

The club's website has been upgraded recently and has some good images of the course now if you click on each hole. As James said, it is on the Bellarine Peninsula, about 1hr 15min drive from Melbourne in Australia.

http://www.bhgc.com.au/welcome/index.mhtml


It is a magic place to play golf, and one of the most underated courses in the country. Some over-imposing bunkers were contructed on the 14th and 15th some years ago, which threatened to deface the whole course if the architect had been given more holes to work on. Luckily, this hasn't happened, and the course is a must play for lovers of traditional golf.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2007, 01:16:12 AM by RichMacafee »
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"The uglier a man's legs are, the better he plays golf. It's almost law" H.G.Wells.

Jeffrey Prest

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Naked par 3s
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2007, 04:11:20 AM »
This is great stuff, folks. Thanks for your contributions. The Lawsonia hole certainly does count.

Message to Joe: where is the hole pictured beneath your earlier message "Does this count?"?
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Rich Goodale

Re:Naked par 3s
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2007, 04:25:15 AM »
#6 at Painswick is a world class golf hole, and numbers 5, 7, 10, 13, 15 and 18 aren't chopped liver either.  None has water or sand to distract from their natural charm.
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Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Naked par 3s
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2007, 06:08:16 AM »
Quote from: Jeffrey Prest on September 06, 2007, 04:11:20 AM
This is great stuff, folks. Thanks for your contributions. The Lawsonia hole certainly does count.

Message to Joe: where is the hole pictured beneath your earlier message "Does this count?"?

Jeffrey,

Greywalls #6, Marquette, Michigan.

Joe
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" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Mike Vegis @ Kiawah

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Naked par 3s
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2007, 10:13:10 AM »
Quote from: Jeffrey Prest on September 05, 2007, 06:15:30 PM

Neither bunkers nor sand defend it, with the architect David Johnson relying simply on the hole's 228-yard length and Pinehurst-style run-off areas around the green to punish the errant tee shot.

You'll find his comments in full on my blog but the reason I mention it here is that I'm scratching my head as to other examples of par 3s that are both sand- and water-free, particularly on the famous courses. David himself has offered the 14th on Kiawah Island's Ocean Course as one example.


I think Eduardo Romero would disagree with you that No. 14 at The Ocean Course is "sand free."  There's a deep, nasty bunker/transition area to the left of the green where Romero's ball plugged.  Here's one of our marketing shots of the hole showing the trouble players can find...

It does run off on three sides but keep away from the fourth side...

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Dan Kelly

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Re:Naked par 3s
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2007, 10:18:22 AM »
Sand Hills No. 3 -- no? (It's been a long time, dammit!)
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"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Roger Tufts

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Re:Naked par 3s
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2007, 10:21:59 AM »
Quote from: Mike Sweeney on September 05, 2007, 10:52:24 PM
County Sligo #4

Been trying to think of that for a few days now. Gah.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2007, 10:22:09 AM by Roger Tufts »
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Jeffrey Prest

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Re:Naked par 3s
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2007, 10:43:58 AM »
Quote
I think Eduardo Romero would disagree with you that No. 14 at The Ocean Course is "sand free."  There's a deep, nasty bunker/transition area to the left of the green where Romero's ball plugged.  Here's one of our marketing shots of the hole showing the trouble players can find...

It does run off on three sides but keep away from the fourth side...

Hmm; don't think we can dismiss it as just a waste area, can we...? Thanks for pointing that out.

All right, so we'll scrub that one. Keep 'em coming, people.

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