Pebble Beach No. 8- One of the best second shots in golf

[erweinstein]

I  must agree with Jack Nicklaus that the 8th at PB is the ultimate second shot in golf that I have played due mostly to the unique aspect of playing accross the sea from a high seaside clifftop to a lower one.  In essence it is target golf with the forced carry being the sea.  If the hole were in the desert, with desert sand instead of the sea as the forced carry, would people still think that was a great second shot?

[Mark_Fine]

For those of you who have our book on hazards, page 71 has a brief account of the greatest (and most memorable) shot I have ever witnessed in all my years of playing golf.  It happened on this hole.  

Bob,
"Impossible" is strong word but many would agree it is appropriate.  Better to have your ball sitting 10 feet short of the green then 10 feet above the hole on that green.  

[Michael Christensen]

like Dan I've only played Pebble once...tied into some USC/Fla St and UCLA/Tenn weekend....drove to and fro from Redondo Beach in the same day.......hit 3W, 5W to 5 feet....missed the putt but made par.....think it was $350 that day....was as beautiful a day weatherwise I have ever had for golf......

[Bart Bradley]

I  must agree with Jack Nicklaus that the 8th at PB is the ultimate second shot in golf that I have played due mostly to the unique aspect of playing accross the sea from a high seaside clifftop to a lower one.  In essence it is target golf with the forced carry being the sea.  If the hole were in the desert, with desert sand instead of the sea as the forced carry, would people still think that was a great second shot?

NO.

Bart

[J_ Crisham]

My favorite story on 8 is watching a jackass from a far Eastern country succeed in getting a cart hung up in the thick rough on the edge of the precipice. As my playing partner and I walked past this beleagured chap we enjoyed saying Sayonara! Probably the reason they keep em on the paths these days.

[Tom_Doak]

Jim S:  I have rarely built a hole where the drive was restricted by a natural hazard.  I've never built one where it was popular or even accepted -- people complain about it all the time.  Somehow the eighth hole at Pebble Beach gets a free pass on this; I think it has something to do with the ocean view.

[Dan Kelly]

I think it has something to do with the ocean view.

You get a few of those to work with, don't you, Tom?

[PThomas]

and not only is it an ocean view, its a DOWNHILL ocean view...if it wasn't so clearly downhill, it might not be as widely accepted

[Mark_Fine]

From the middle tee it's a 230-240 yard tee shot.  From the tips it is closer to 270 yards with more room of course on the left.  The wind has a lot to do with what club is played.  The pros hit irons or hybrids but the average golfer is hitting a 3W or driver to get in position for the next shot.  Without saying, the second shot is so spectacular and unique that this is one hole you could have a wedge for your first and few people would complain.  The anticipation of where your tee shot ends up (you can't see it land from the tee unless you are well back from the cliff) is exciting as well.  There is skill and strategy in getting it as close as you dare (too far back and you have a blind second which is not much fun).  The wind which almost always blows on the point, can make it quite challenging.  I'm not big at all on forced layups off the tee but this one is not so simple.  

[Kalen Braley]

I can understand where if it wasn't an ocean side view then it would be critized more.

But what I don't understand is why a hole like 17 at TOC gets a free pass in here yet a hole like this gets critized.  If anything at least 8 at PB follows the lay of the land.

[Andy Troeger]

I played PB for the first time about a month ago. It was raining pretty good on #8 tee and I hit three wood thinking I had to lay up. I hit a good drive down the right side but didn't hit it far enough and still had 210 left in. You can hit that drive farther than you think, but its intimidating being blind and uphill.

My second came up short and rolled back down about 20 feet. Here's where the fun really started, as I could see the ball from the top of the cliff and it was very playable with a reasonable chance of getting to it. Plus I was -1 through 7 holes. I asked the caddie in our group what he thought my chances were (of getting to the ball and back up) and he was fairly confident that I wouldn't injure myself so I climbed down, hit the ball up to the top short of the green, chip on and make it for a 5. Bogeyed 9 for a 37 which I was still very pleased with. Certainly made for an interesting memory when I see photos of the hole (I have a poster on the wall so that's often).

We won't talk about what I made on #10.

[Doug Siebert]

I haven't played PB (so Patrick Mucci can stop reading now) but from what I gather of #8 it seems to me like everyone saying it is all about the second shot is missing an important factor in what makes the hole challenging.

If it were a par 3 where you hit over the ravine to the green it wouldn't be regarded all that highly.  Yeah, it'd be scenic and the green would still be small and tough to putt, but par 3s of 180-200 yards where you have to carry a ravine or water hazard or whatever are on every other course in the land.

No, what makes it challenging, at least in my mind, is that you have to successfully execute your tee shot just to get into that nice position where you'd be if it were a par 3.  The fact that most of us don't always hit our tee shots where we want will often leave us with a longer second shot, with a worse angle and perhaps with a less than ideal stance.  Its like taking that par 3 and tossing the ball 30 yards off to the side and behind the teebox.

This is the kind of thing that drives me crazy if I play a great course only once.  There are some holes where the proper experience of the hole depends on getting it off to a good start!

If/when I play PB, if I screw up my drive on #8 I'm going to drop a ball in the area where I was trying to place my drive, just to see what that shot is like.  Likewise, if I'm ever fortunate enough to have a chance to play CPC, after I hit my shot at 16 at the green, I'm going to play another ball and try to lay up, because I still think from the photos I've seen that hitting that layup area looks a hell a lot more difficult to me than hitting at the green and keeping it out of the ocean!

[Tom_Doak]

Mark:

I agree that there is skill involved to get your tee shot in the right spot on the hole -- but it's also a blind tee shot where you have to have played the hole a bunch of times to have any confidence about what you're doing.  That's what gets you in position for the dramatic downhill second shot.  I'm not saying it's a poor trade-off, but it's certainly a trade-off.

[Rich Goodale]

Tom

You get that same tradeoff on holes 2-7 of the Old Course.  Poor or not-Poor?

To put it another way, if Pebble Beach had 6 straight blind tee shot holes, would we even dare to call it "great?"

Rich

[Bill_McBride]

The second shot over the chasm is a tough one, but the chip from behind after a "safe" longer than required second shot is perhaps even tougher!  I remember being uncomfortable with a 190 shot after already hitting a few thin long irons, so hit a 5-wood over the back.

Now you are there with a wedge in hand, planning how you are going to stop the shot on the hood of a VW beetle, with the ocean beyond!  

[Mike_Cirba]

Bob,

Nice thread..

Wouldn't 11 at Pasatiempo be very similar to the type of hole you're describing?   A tee shot that one must either lay back on or hit to a very narrowly constricted area that gives slight advantage before plummeting into oblivion, which leaves a lengthy second (with a requisite long club), or a bail out to a safe area, in both cases then requiring an approach into a green where it's all to easy to get above the hole, instantly negating all of the hard work that might have come before.  

Not quite the same inspiring view, but a stunner in its own right.  

[Tom Huckaby]

Mike - see replies 9 and 12.

 

[Adam Clayman]

Tom Doak, Thinking back to my virgin playing of the hole, pre-ProV1. There was a sign on the side of the teeing ground that read "245 to cliff". Add in the aiming rock and there's little mystery, on what's required, even for a guy sans caddy.

I've always felt it a shame that the narrow fairway exists on this hole. Playing out to the right of the fairway seems like a reasonable option should the wind be from behind.

[Sean Leary]

Jim S:  I have rarely built a hole where the drive was restricted by a natural hazard.  I've never built one where it was popular or even accepted -- people complain about it all the time.  Somehow the eighth hole at Pebble Beach gets a free pass on this; I think it has something to do with the ocean view.

Tom,

Would you consider the hole on the back nine at Stone Eagle to be on of these holes ( Can't remember the #). Sort of a mirror image of 8 at Pebble, as you can go far right, but long center or left goes in the canyon.

[Nick Church]

I am biased because my second shot at the 8th hole resulted in this... lots of thanks to my caddie Rock.... and don't fret, Mr. Huntley, it was a 3-wood followed by a hybrid for my thirty year old body...

Greatest shot of my life:

[rjsimper]

I hope Rock didn't knock that one away - I'd be moritified if I didn't have the chance to backhand that one in for an all-life 3.

The putt from above the hole on 8 is even impossible in Tiger Woods video game golf...

What do the pros hit off the tee there now?  Hasn't it always been a 3 wood (and by always, my young perspective takes that back as far as Palmer and even Nelson)?

When did the big boys stop hitting driver there?


EDIT: Upon reviewing the photo and the pitch mark, how on earth did that shot miss being a deuce??

[Nick Church]

I hope Rock didn't knock that one away - I'd be moritified if I didn't have the chance to backhand that one in for an all-life 3.

The putt from above the hole on 8 is even impossible in Tiger Woods video game golf...

What do the pros hit off the tee there now?  Hasn't it always been a 3 wood (and by always, my young perspective takes that back as far as Palmer and even Nelson)?

When did the big boys stop hitting driver there?


EDIT: Upon reviewing the photo and the pitch mark, how on earth did that shot miss being a deuce??

It was Rock's idea to use the putter to give proper perspective to the result.

As for the pitch mark --- I was too stunned, numb to give it much thought.  After butchering 6 and three-putting 7, I was elated to exact a little revenge on 8.

[Bob Jenkins]

Nick,

Did you make the putt?

Tough green.

[Nick Church]

Nick,

Did you make the putt?

Tough green.

Darn well better... otherwise Rock might have dropped me right then & there.