[Tom Bagley]

I was at the tournament on Friday and Sunday and played the course about a month ago.

I found it a neat hole to play, but without much strategy.  The "sucker' play is to hit the safe shot to the left, which leaves a very difficult pitch (for us mere mortals), especially to the front pin.  On Sunday, Zach Johnson was short of the left greenside bunker with his drive, but executed a great short pitch to the front pin to secure his three.

The hole would be better strategically if there were more room to the right to carry the approach bunkers and set up a better angle on the pitch.  The problem is that there is not enough room on the right to make that option viable.  A leaky drive could find the wetlands/hazard and a short drive will find the approach bunkers.  It is better to simply pound it at the opening, trying to hit it far enough to at least reach the bunker.  Tiger made a comment that the place to miss it is to the right:  true if you are CERTAIN that you can consistently carry all of the trouble down the right side.  

[John Kavanaugh]

I drove the 10th at The Riviera by hitting a hard running fade that flew no further than 250 yds in the air.  Does this 4th hole at TPCoB offer such options for the older guy who can't fly the ball 290 yds?

Has every hole that Tiger doubled in his career now become great?  Didn't he double the 3rd at Pebble on his way to his record win?

[Brad Klein]

JK, he tripled it. So much for your rule. He also tripled the Postage Stamp at Troon to shoot himself out in 1997 on Sunday.

[Dan Herrmann]

Gil has a drivable par 3 at French Creek.  (#15)

Last year, the kids from the AJGA scored from a 2 to a 10.  The average was 4.something.    I think Gil does a great job on holes of this ilk.  

If anything, FC #15 may be more difficult due to a very difficult green.  It's quite possible to putt off the back left of the green and be faced with a 6' uphill pitch back to the green.  

It's pure fun (usually!).  

[John Kavanaugh]

JK, he tripled it. So much for your rule. He also tripled the Postage Stamp at Troon to shoot himself out in 1997 on Sunday.

This is exactly why smart people scare me.  At least I didn't start a thread on my now defunct theory.  Can I get a little help...What other holes has Tiger tripled?

[Michael Moore]

First hole, first round, Royal St. George's 2003.

[Tim Gavrich]

I don't think #15 at TPC River Highlands is less than about 330 yards, but I think #4 at TPC may be a better hole.

From what I remember, #15 at TPCRH is much like the 17th at Scottsdale.  Hit it very straight onto a green with a pond short left.

#4 at TPC has more options.

15 at River Highlands is 296 from the tips.  I've seen a lot of players reach pin-high with 3 wood.  The player certainly does not need to "carry the ball 290 yards" off the tee, as an earlier post suggests about #4 at the TPC of Boston.  On a day of proper ground conditions, one can pitch the tee shot in the downslope about 30 yards short of the 15th green and have it bound up onto the putting surface.

I also wouldn't say that 15 at RH is without options.  It is perfectly reasonable to lay up to between 50 and 100 yards, which leaves the player a couple different *options* as to how to proceed (diverse pin positions also dictate this).  And should the player miss the green, he/she is left with a few *options* as to how to play from the collection areas around the green.

Does anyone have pictures of the TPC Boston hole?  I missed it this weekend (no readily accessible TVs at college   ), and I found nothing on the TPC Boston website.  The "18 hole tour" only revealed maps of the first three holes for me.

Cheers.

[Lynn_Shackelford]

Go to www.geoffshackelford.com

at the bottom of the page keep clicking until you go back to items 46-60.  Just one picture, but it looks like there is a reasonable layout in front about 70 yards from the green.

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

Tim,

The 15th at TPC River Highlands is a bit more detailed than just hitting it straight. I think Bobby Weed did a fabulous job.

The elevated green is three tiered with a lowest portion running from middle right to front left. Putting through the trough is interesting because the green pitches to the left. Water is left of the green, but not short of it. An amazing number of pros pull the ball into the water and a few even block it into the gunk on the right, about 40 yards off line. The elevated green is what creates the interest. Coming up short, say at 30 yards, produces real problems as far as getting to correct tier with the run-up or pitch as options.. Front right is probably the hardest flag location. The green also repels wayward shots to bunkers on the right that are on the far side of a chipping area. A few weeks ago playing the hole at about 240 yards, my tee shot rolled up and onto the green, then off on the right into a bunker leaving me a 30-yard shot. From there, anything bladed would at best be in the bunker on the far side, at worst it would be in the pond.

For those laying up, Weed implanted a wonderful set of bunkers on the left side of the fairway.

Anthony
(Full disclosure: I work on the River Highland grounds crew weekday mornings.)

[Brad Tufts]

Here is what the "Hole-by-Hole Renovation Description" by Gil Hanse says about #4:

Hole #4 - 298 yards (par 4)
Our most significant change to the golf course occurs with the re-design of this par 4 golf hole.  Gone is the sharp dogleg mid-length hole measuring 436 yards, in its place is a drivable par 4 playing under 300 yards from the championship tee.  Great short par 4 holes should provide many options for the golfer as he stands on the tee.  The opportunity to drive the green needs to be seductive enough to encourage the player to attempt it.  This seduction needs to be in the form that success is possible, but failure is not fatal.  Too strong a reliance on either ease or disaster and the choices become easy.  We are hopeful that we have found the right balance with this new hole.

Options abound depending on what angle or length of shot the golfer desires to play.  There is plenty of room to the left, however, a shallow angle into a tiny green is the result of this play.  The straight line provides the best chance of driving and holding the green, with a shot drawn off of the mound behind the right hand fairway bunker.  Shots played to the right will encounter "CDMs" (chocolate drop mounds) and a chipping area, making recovery play a gamble.  The aforementioned green is small yet complex in its composition.  The goal is to change the options of play based on the accessibility of each hole location, and that players will determine their plan of attack based on the strengths of their game.  This result will have added a hole to the course that had been missing from the original design.  A hole that inspires thought based on composition rather than length, a true component of most golden age courses.

[Brad Tufts]

I dunno how well you can read it...but this is the sketch from the "TPC Boston 2006 Enhancement Project" dated 8/14/2006.

It gives an idea of the angles involved.

[BCrosby]

Here is what the "Hole-by-Hole Renovation Description" by Gil Hanse says about #4:

Hole #4 - 298 yards (par 4)
Our most significant change to the golf course occurs with the re-design of this par 4 golf hole.  Gone is the sharp dogleg mid-length hole measuring 436 yards, in its place is a drivable par 4 playing under 300 yards from the championship tee.  Great short par 4 holes should provide many options for the golfer as he stands on the tee.  The opportunity to drive the green needs to be seductive enough to encourage the player to attempt it.  This seduction needs to be in the form that success is possible, but failure is not fatal.  Too strong a reliance on either ease or disaster and the choices become easy.  We are hopeful that we have found the right balance with this new hole.

Options abound depending on what angle or length of shot the golfer desires to play.  There is plenty of room to the left, however, a shallow angle into a tiny green is the result of this play.  The straight line provides the best chance of driving and holding the green, with a shot drawn off of the mound behind the right hand fairway bunker.  Shots played to the right will encounter "CDMs" (chocolate drop mounds) and a chipping area, making recovery play a gamble.  The aforementioned green is small yet complex in its composition.  The goal is to change the options of play based on the accessibility of each hole location, and that players will determine their plan of attack based on the strengths of their game.  This result will have added a hole to the course that had been missing from the original design.  A hole that inspires thought based on composition rather than length, a true component of most golden age courses.

Notwithstanding the puffery, that's one of the best descriptions I've read of how a hole's architecture can induce a player to think strategically.

Well done (except for the puffery, that is).

Bob

[Tim Gavrich]

Brad,

Thanks for pulling that sketch up.  It looks like a really neat hole--I'm sorry I missed it on TV (I don't know how much exposure the hole got, knowing how early in the round is occurs).

I was really impressed that Hanse and Faxon were brought in to transform the course from one that was relentlessly difficult and monotonous (and derided by many pros) to one that is still challenging, yet tasteful and much richer in strategy.

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

Tim,

I thought it was very interesting how television played up the wonderful Hanse renovations but failed to mention - at least from the hours I watched - that it was the third reworking of the course  and that the Arnold Palmer design is obliterated just four years after it opened.

Palmer supposedly wants his name taken off the design. I think the road leading into the club is named after him as well.

Anthony

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

This is a mediocre rendition of Bobby Weed's 15th at TPC River Highlands.

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