Buffalo, NY .. US or Canadian side?

[Steve Lang]

 

Buffalo, NY area.. Wasn't there a thread on this area in last year?

is the golf better on the US or Canadian side for Muni's and/or CCFAD's .. or do we drive straight to Rochester/Webster area?

[Doug Wright]

Steve,

I haven't been in the area for some time so maybe things have changed but there wasn't much good public golf around Buffalo on the US side when I was there. On the Canadian side, there is a course in the Niagara Falls area worth playing: Niagara Parks Whirlpool Course. It was a really good but fair test and a wonderful setting along the escarpment. I always thought it was an RTJ course but they say Stanley Thompson.

http://www.niagaraparksgolf.com/whirlpool/history.php

There is a new 36 hole complex near there too called the Legends and another called Grand Niagara (Rees Jones) but I don't know anything about them. Visit Niagara on the Lake, Ontario if you get a chance--it's a beautiful area.

[Bob_Huntley]

I am not sure how long it takes to drive from Buffalo to Hamilton but Ancaster is not to be missed.

Bob

[Tyler Kearns]

Steve,

The Rees Jones course at Grand Niagara is decent, but nothing to write home about. Plans are in the works to expand this facility to 36-holes with the addition of a golf course designed by Greg Norman.

In addition to the 36-hole complex that Doug mentioned, John Daly opened a course nearby called Thundering Rapids.

TK

[John Foley]

Steve,

In Buffalo on the far eastern side in Akron you should check out Arrowhead by own Scott Witter. Very, very good place that has a ton of strategy. Around the corner from there is the Link at Ivy Ridge. While not as strong as Arrowhead, still a fine choice. On the US side those are the two best. There is a new course near the airport called Diamond Hawk by Hurdzan. Have not seen it though.

On the Canadian side is The 36 hole Legends complex. I've played Carrick's Battlefield course and enjoyed it very much, but not seen McBroom's Usher's Creek. I like both Whirlpool and the Rees Jones course at Grand Niagara, but have not heard good things about Daly's Thundering Waters.

IMHO, the best on theCanadian side is Hunters Pointe now called Loch Ness Links?? Bery strong pseudo links course near the Welland Canal, not far from Niagara Falls.

[JNC Lyon]

Canadian side has Whirlpool, a Stanley Thompson muni with lots of bunkers (at least from the air).  Buffalo is really short on public courses but there are many good private ones including Crag Burn, CC of Buffalo, and Park Club, play them if you can get on.  On the way to Rochester, there is Mill Creek in Churchville (its on the thruway but not really close to an exit) that's very neat with lots of alternate fairway holes and wild greens, albeit with a couple goofy holes atop the mountain.  Also Terry Hills in Batavia is a little known course, very short with a few too many trees but with several cool holes and wild greens.  It's 27 holes, but play 1-18 (the first two nines) if asked.

If you're in Rochester, talk to John Foley about where to play (Greystone is the best public course near Webster), and the private courses are easily accessible, best is CC of Rochester or Oak Hill of course.  Monroe is good but doesn't match up with the other two.

[Dan Herrmann]

If Greystone is the best in metro-Rochester, we're in trouble.  The course put me to sleep.  Uninspired bunkering, mediocre routing.  Pace of play was easily 5+ hours.   For comparison, the nice family-owned and seldom discussed Philly area public, Honeybrook, is significantly better.    In other words, if Greystone weren't in metro-Rochester, it'd be middle-of-the-road at best.

Publics in Buffalo are nothing to write home about.   I'd definitely head to Ontario.  (I grew up in Tonawanda and left the area due to lack of jobs after I graduated in '83)

[JNC Lyon]

Greystone is one of the better public courses in the Rochester area, but Mill Creek and Ravenwood are both better courses as public courses.  Greystone is just the best one close to Webster.  I would disagree somewhat with your assessment of Greystone.  The greens are wild and very interesting, some of the most interesting greens in the area.  the routing takes good advantage of the land.  I do agree, however, that the bunkering needs some serious work, but overall the course is quite interesting and generally a good price.  I couldn't comment on pace of play as i've only played the course in tournaments, but in the fall it's likely not too bad.  

[Steve Lang]

  Thanks very much Guys..

looks like canadian side is one up at the turn..

our only plans are:
1) arrive sat am 9/8  
2) work mon am 9/10
3) leave tues am 9/11

And not one mention of RTJ's Glen Oak.. "undeniably the Buffalo Niagara region's premier course open to the public.".."the 18th - one of the greatest closing holes anywhere"..?

 

[Chris_Blakely]

South Shore CC in Hamburg, NY is an old Stiles and Van Kleek course built in the early 20's.  There are some decent holes there.  Conditions a couple of years ago were not great.  If price is a concern, this may be one of the better bets.

Here is some history and a couple of old photos of South Shore.  I took a bunch of pictures of the course, but they are buried somewhere.

http://buff-golf.com/labbance.htm

[Dan Herrmann]

I actually played Glen Oak about 20 years ago, and never went back.

If you want a quirky, VERY inexpensive muni, try Sheridan in Tonawanda.  It held the 1962 USGA Publinx, is very walkable, and has some interesting architectual elements.

Also keep in mind that the wait to get back into the USA from Canada can be l-o-n-g...  

[Chris_Blakely]

Sheridan Park is a William Harries design and after playing Shorewood GC in Dunkirk, NY, I would give a look to almost anything Harries built.  The front 9 at Shorewood has a lot of grassed in crossbunkers and large elivated greens almost Ryaner / Bankesesque.

There are several other courses by Harries that I wanted to check out if I ever get in the area again.

[Dan Herrmann]

About 20 years ago, some of the best holes at Sheridan were sold to Linde Corp for a campus expansion.  But there still are some beauties out there.  The back 9 has some wonderful holes.  #13 is not original, but the others are.  

Harries uses Two Mile Creek to wonderful effect on several holes.

Here's a great find:   The program from the '62 Publinx:  http://www.sheridanparkgolfclub.com/history/1962publinx.html

[Steve Lang]

 

Chris, Dan,... I like the William Harries tour idea.. Sheridan Park sounds good for local flavor.. having grown up playing on Toledo's Ottawa Park (1899) which held the first USGA AM Publinx in 1922..  what were they into 40 years later?

loooong wait... ? over an hour

p.s. we're staying at Salvatore's Garden Hotel in Williamsville

[Dan Herrmann]

Keep in mind that Sheridan is no Pine Valley...  But it is fun, inexpensive, and very casual.  

Be sure to grab a hot dog after (I think) the 5th or 6th hole.  (just sneak thru the fence to the very vintage drive-up restrauant

Nice thing about Sheridan is that you're close to The Falls.  It's probably at most a 20-30 minute drive up I-190.  

If you drive up north of the Falls on the Robert Moses Parkway, be sure to visit Whirlpool State Park - you have a cool view across the gorge to Whirlpool Golf Course (Stanley Thompson) over in Canada.

Oh yeah - see if you can grab a "Beef on Weck" in Buffalo and let us know what you think.  

[Evan_Smith]

Steve
   I can't comment on the U.S. side, but I can guarantee that if you play Whirlpool, you won't regret it.  It's an amazing course and one of the best I've played in North America.  There was a bunker renovation done a few years ago and they did a very good job.  It was one of Stanley Thompson's last designs before he died and is very reminiscent of his other great courses.  The par 3's are strong!!!!  

Lochness Links in Welland is also great (I prefer Whirlpool to anything in the area) and the 2 courses at Legends of Niagara are enjoyable.  

Here's a tip to save you a bundle.  Join Last Minute Golfer (www.lastminutegolfer.com) it's free and you can save a ton of money playing in Niagara.  Instead of $90 at Whirlpool, you can play for as low as $44.  At Legends the savings are huge too.  $120 becomes $75.  It's the best thing going and there are courses all over North America.  You'll thank me later.  I guarantee that too!

[Dan Herrmann]

I agree with Evan.  Whirpool is by far the best public course in the Buffalo-Niagara Region.

[John Foley]

Dan - Why no love for Greystone??

I think the routing is excellent, I love how 4 goes up & over the hill and they connect the two sides of the front. I love the placement of the short par 3 6th. The back nine meanders up & down left & right.

The bunkering is not prettied up, however it's got some great strategic plays. The bunker short & right on #4, the center fw on 8, the lay up area on 9. Why do you think it's uninspired?

You can't tell me that those aren't some great greens.

Agreeded on Whirpool and the Last Min Golfer.com is an AWESOME deal for us here in Western NY.

[Doug Wright]

Whirpool is by far the best public course in the Buffalo-Niagara Region.

Whirlpool was the best public course in the region when I was there for a summer--in 1977. Whirlpool is a really fine course as I posted above, but it's somewhat sad that nothing has come along to challenge Whirlpool in the past 30 years.

[John Foley]

Doug,

Untill the developments on the Canadian side got hot about 5 years ago, there was nothing new in Buffalo/NF in a looong time.

Since then you've got Arrowhead, Ivy Ridge & Diamond Hawk. I like the first two very much and have not played the later. Have not seen Whirlpool in quite a while, but will try to get there this fall.

[Steve Lang]

  Looks like plenty of area options.. hmmmm, wonder how Whirlpool compares to Thompson's Banff & Jasper.. some great par 3's there too!

options.. that's what i appreaciate most about gca

[JNC Lyon]

I still say Mill Creek in Churchville, it's loads of fun and always and good condition, and Ravenwood in Victor (kinda close to Webster) is good as well (better than Greystone sorry John Foley).  As for Whirlpool, it looks like a good choice, but the line at the border does get long, so beware.

[henrye]

Whirlpool is a fun course, but I wouldn't call it anything special.

[Doug Wright]

Looks like plenty of area options.. hmmmm, wonder how Whirlpool compares to Thompson's Banff & Jasper.. some great par 3's there too!

Steve,

Whirlpool is no Banff Springs, in fact it's quite different from Banff (and not nearly as good). The Whirlpool greens are very large and not that undulating, and I don't recall the bunkering as being particularly memorable though perhaps that has changed in recent years. As I mentioned until I looked it up when I was initially responding to your thread, I always thought Whirlpool was an RTJ course.

[Steve Lang]

 

Sounds like match all square with two days to go..

classic both sides.. econ/casual both sides.. some new both sides..

..this line thing to cross the border is worrysome.. why don't I have a TX accent, ehh??

Doug, I wish I were going to Calgary..


but 1/2 day work, 2-3 day play is in Buffalo.. not quite the Can.Rockies.. but much cooler than Houston!