[Jordan Wall]

Michael,

#14 plays VERY different depending on wind.

I hit 6-iron in last Wednesday, and couldnt reach two days later, from the same set of tees.

Its as solid a hole as I've ever seen.

[Sean Leary]

Mike,

I agree that 16 might be the coolest place on the property. And I do love that little bunker, particularly when the pin is behind it after I have driven it just left of there. Drives me crazy.  But to me it is a bit more eye candy than a great hole, but thats just me. I think the same about 9 at CB.

Hell, many of the general population likes  Bandon more than Pacific, so to each their own.

Yup.  Agreed.  Great minds think alike!

Have you ever played #16 in a strong headwind?  If anything goes wrong you are not getting over the chasm.  I love that.

Being told you are not better than Bandon Dunes is no slap in the face, that's for sure.  Chambers is great, I look forward to a return visit very soon.

Not strong enough that I couldn't get it over, no.  Wind strength and direction changes every hole there though.

No hole looks better in the greened up pictures they sell there than 16 though, for sure.

As for Chambers, I need to play it again, and I need to play it farther back than I played the first time. I was so distracted by Tiger B's 17 logos that we played from the wrong set of tees.

[Sean Leary]

Michael,

#14 plays VERY different depending on wind.

I hit 6-iron in last Wednesday, and couldnt reach two days later, from the same set of tees.

Its as solid a hole as I've ever seen.

How many mulligans did you hit there on Wednesday, to hit 6 iron? Or maybe you  were a 1 on Wednesday and a 15 on Friday, as you claim to be

[Jordan Wall]

4 or 5 probably...oh mulligans, i thought strokes...i forget both though..

No, from 498, the hole was very manageable downwind, not so much into..

[Richard Choi]

I don't find CB quite that compelling yet....and I've yet to hear any CONCRETE examples where compelling drama is found.  Jordan did point out the narrow rear portion of the 16th green and how it detered him from firing at the stick.  

I think "The Narrows" affords some interesting choices, but short par 4's do that.  The par 4's at CB are long, tough, brutish......but does that necessarily make them better?  Are they more fun to play, super thought provoking.  What is there to ponder on #10 at CB, for example.  

Don't go left.  Don't go right.  Hit ball as far as possible.

That's about it.  It's a gorgeous hole, but relatively vapid strategically.

I personally don't think there is that much risk reward on Narrows. The lay up landing area is pretty small and it does not give you a great view of the green. All three times I hit a driver (landed on the green twice!), but even when you hit the green it can be almost impossible to birdie that hole because of how dramatic the slopes are.

The kind of drama you are talking about can be readily found on #5 where thre are two greens, one is very short and another long. Gives you two very different holes. Even when the long green is used, you are very high up and you are hitting directly into the normal wind. Depending on the wind, you can either try to hit a bomb in the air, or you can hit a low burner that will travel a long ways.  

The green is also shaped so that if the wind is blow strongly, your best option is to use the dramatic slope on the right where you can land 30 yard short of the hole and still have it feed to the green.

#16 (my favorite) can also play very different based on the wind. If the wind is behind you (which will be in winter), you can drive the green. In normal conditions, you can hit anything from 4 iron to a driver off the tee. You can try to bite off much as you can, but you will be flirting with nasty hazard on the right and dunes to the left. You can lay up in a wide area short, but that means you will have a tricky approach into a narrow green which can be really tough if you have a strong right to left wind.

But then you also have the option of playing on the ground where if you hit about 10 yards short of the green, it will feed right. But watch out though, as if you go miss green to the left, there is collection area that will direct your ball away from the green.

The choices are abound on #14! You can either lay up short in a wide landing area and have a long shot in, or you can take some chances and cut off as much dogleg as you can to the left. If you can carry about 210 (from sand tees), there is hump that will propel your ball to the left and you will have a short iron in (for a 450+ yard hole). Watch out though, if you miss short you are dead. If you miss to the right you are dead in a massive bunker in the middle of the fairway.

My nemesis #18 has many choices. If the wind is blowing from behind (prevailing), you can hit a driver and if you can avoid the bunkers, you have a good chance of hitting the green in two. But those two bunkers are VERY VERY good at swallowing mediocre drives. And they are impossible to get out cleanly. The last time I played, I hit a hybrid short of the bunker, hit the hybrid again, and wedged it to the green. The other two time I hit the bunkers and double bogeyed.

Do you want me to continue?

[Michael Dugger]

Michael,

#14 plays VERY different depending on wind.

I hit 6-iron in last Wednesday, and couldnt reach two days later, from the same set of tees.

Its as solid a hole as I've ever seen.

How many mulligans did you hit there on Wednesday, to hit 6 iron?

maybe he was playing from the wrong tees!!!

[Jordan Wall]

One question...

I hear so many people saying #16 is driveable with wind behind.

Howevr, the hole is 395 yards from the back tee markers and 360 something from one forward.  The whites are even at about 340 yards.

Is it really driveable?

[Michael Dugger]

I do not play from the tips JOrdan, not even close

[W.H. Cosgrove]

I have been staying out of this discussion for a myriad of reasons but must now weigh in on the Chambers.  

As background, I sat through almost every part of the process and peered over the edge of the pit while it was built.  I have gotten out five times and am now waiting to play until next month or even next year.  

Chambers is beautiful, it is an engineering marvel, as would be expected. I think #5 (skyline green), #6, (Fabulous green site), #14(best drive on the golf course), are highlights of the track.  Jones, Charlton and Blasi should be commended for their ability to create something so different from their usual work.

I believe the next piece is maintenance.  This is a work in progress.  I do not like the bare look with the invasive species removed from the waste areas.  The last time I was out, a Monday, the course was shaggy which didn't allow for the strategy to work, and as previously reported the greens were very slow.  It will aslo be very interesting to see how they manage the poa as it will inevitably attack the fescue.  I am told it is already evident in spots.

If only they could have waited to open another year to get Chambers open.  Which is the reason I will wait for final judgement until next year.

[Jordan Wall]

I do not play from the tips JOrdan, not even close

Mihcael, the tips are at 420 on that hole.  They dont even put those markers out.  So, I'm not really sure the hole is driveable....perhaps a drive and pitch downwind, but not a drive and putt.

However, a little 45 or 50 yard pitch to a back pin is still quite a tough shot, and undoubtebly there could be some double bogies from such a short length to that pin.

[Craig Van Egmond]

Looks like the guy (Joe Bentham) who started this thread has been zapped... he's just a guest now and all his pic's are gone.

So long Joe.. we hardly knew ya.

[Mike_Cirba]

"My Goodness!  People come and go so quickly around here!" - Dorothy Gale

[Michael Dugger]

I do not play from the tips JOrdan, not even close

Mihcael, the tips are at 420 on that hole.  They dont even put those markers out.  So, I'm not really sure the hole is driveable....perhaps a drive and pitch downwind, but not a drive and putt.

However, a little 45 or 50 yard pitch to a back pin is still quite a tough shot, and undoubtebly there could be some double bogies from such a short length to that pin.

Jordan

You obviously are not familiar with a truly fast and firm surface yet.  I am talking major roll here.  Add a strong tailwind to things.    It's crazy to fathom but 350 is not out of the realm of possibility.  

One of my buddies cracked one 360 at Trails.  Yes, we did not believe it either but you can get 50-60 yds of roll out there....

[Norbert P]

1. Chambers is beautiful, it is an engineering marvel, ...

2. I believe the next piece is maintenance.  This is a work in progress.  

3.  I do not like the bare look with the invasive species removed from the waste areas.  

4. It will also be very interesting to see how they manage the poa as it will inevitably attack the fescue.  

5. If only they could have waited to open another year to get Chambers open.  

6. Which is the reason I will wait for final judgement until next year.

Bill, You've brought up some interesting observations and questions.

1. I agree.
2. I agree.
3. Hmmm, ambivalant.  Invasive species should be removed if not native. What should be replanted in their stead?
4. Poa attacks everything where conditions are wet. Good question though... what might it play like in 20 years with poa everywhere (not a statement of inevitability.)
5. I will take the unfinished look while getting to play but definitely they do have a debt to cover.
6. Wise statement.  Final Judgement?  There's a sign in the Mens room at a new (very cool) restaurant in Portland (The Morrison Hotel) that says "FREE BEER TOMORROW".   Will we, can we ever give a final judgement on a course? Classic or new?

[Sean Leary]

Played my second round (third trip) today at Chambers.  Some thoughts:

Sunny and high 70's with a 2plus club wind.  Chamber of Commerce day.

Tee sheet was surprisingly very open, yet it still took almost 5 hours to play. Groups with caddies were the culprits.  I think that caddies might slow down play there by talking through every shot with their player. Just a theory.

I get tired of hitting out of footprints in the waste areas/ bunkers. Happened 4 times.

Greens still quite slow. Practice green was a bit faster than the course greens. I admire you guys who like slow undulating greens.  I am terrible at putting slow greens. 40 putts. Wish Jordan was caddying for me so I could blame him.

My approach shot on 1 hit the left fringe and ended up 53 yards left of the green down the hill. I like that.

From the 7100 yard tees in a 2+ club wind from the north/northeast, some holes play very hard. 1, 5, 7, 11, and 14 were monsters.Not surprisingly, the wind makes a big difference in the difficulty.

The greens are very deceptive to read whether they are uphill or downhill with the slope of the land toward the water. With the wind it makes it difficult to judge speed.

While fairways are very wide, I don't see much gained strategically on most of the holes depending on where you are coming in from anglewise, especially with all the sideboards on  many of the holes.

I wonder if 4 green might be a bit too severe when the greens do get faster.

Par 4's are world class as a group.

The Narrows (12) is growing on me.  Mt. Olympus (9) is not.

10 is dead sexy, as Mr. Hendren suggested.

The carries over the waste areas are longer than they appear. If you can carry on aggressive lines, you can get a considerable advantage, especially on holes 7 and 14.

Overall, I am just thrilled to have a course of this caliber in the area.  

[Jesse Jones]

Sean,

You make a great point about the caddies. Some are new to the game and are REALLY trying to earn their tips by giving players lots of information, maybe too much.
The first hole may be the hardest on the course, and you played it into the wind? Damn.
I agree, it's nice to have a course like this nearby.


Cos,

Good point. It really needs a year. I'm sure an owner with deep pockets would have let the place sit  until next season.. But it's the county, and there's  a large number of pissed off voters who are still angry about the place. As you well know, the County Executive didn't have a choice.
As for the Poa..
Management says they'll control it. I'm not so optimistic.

Question: What changes are needed to make CB USGA championship ready?

[W.H. Cosgrove]

I will also give a thumbs up to having a course of this quality in the area.  If anything it allows enough traffic through the area to get a Home Course, Trophy, McCormick, White Horse, and The likes of Oakbrook and Fircrest discussed if not noticed.

What Pierce County Executive Ladenburg has created is some traffic.  The Chambers story has a long way to go but it has ignited some interest in Puget Sound golf and that can't be bad.  

Some anecdotal information, the local metro parks course, Meadow Park, had a very successful July, Home Course did over 7000 rounds in their first month of operation, Tacoma News Tribune said Chambers did 13,000 rounds up until August 12, Oakbrook has signed on 65 new members this year.  The game of golf would appear to be pretty healthy in the city of Tacoma and Pierce County.  Others may be struggling, but many are doing very well.

Does a place like Chambers drive this kind of resurgence in the game?

[Michael Dugger]

There's a sign in the Mens room at a new (very cool) restaurant in Portland (The Morrison Hotel) that says "FREE BEER TOMORROW".   Will we, can we ever give a final judgement on a course? Classic or new?

Slag,

It seems salient, when discussing golf courses on this site, to mention what another one of those signs in the latrine say....

I fart in your general direction!

[Jordan Wall]

I admire you guys who like slow undulating greens.  I am terrible at putting slow greens. 40 putts. Wish Jordan was caddying for me so I could blame him.



My approach shot on 1 hit the left fringe and ended up 53 yards left of the green down the hill. I like that.

Sean,

Where were the pins today?  Putting can be a ........ with some of the pin locations.  Last time I played they had brutal pins.....front right on 5 (WOW dont go in that bunker!), way back on 7, way front on 8, and just to the right of the big rige in the center of the green on 9, which btw is a horrible pin because anything landing on the ridge is automically at least 30 feet away down a tier.  Not to mention front right on 11, 12 was waaay left and two feet from a ridge, 16 was back a lot (!) and 17 was waaay up front.

With pins like that, three putts can happen every hole.

On another note, I absolutely hate how they choose their pins.  Its always front, back, middle....that trend is followed even if the first pin is middle or back (m,b,f, or b,f, m).  I like it when there are two or three of the same pins in a row.  Sometimes interesting pin locations are lost by following such a routine.  For instance, the three best pins on 8, 9, and 10 are all back locations (imo), yet in the same round each of those pin locations would be different.  Every time.


Also, #1 is usually into the wind.  I have never hit anything less than a 3-wood to the green from the 7100 set and no matter the set of tees I have played, I have never hit that green in regulation and have made a 4 just once.  Nothing but a lot of 5's and a single 4, which is ok with me because I play it as a par-5 into that wind anyways...

[Joe Bentham]

On another note, I absolutely hate how they choose their pins.  Its always front, back, middle....that trend is followed even if the first pin is middle or back (m,b,f, or b,f, m).  I like it when there are two or three of the same pins in a row.  Sometimes interesting pin locations are lost by following such a routine.  For instance, the three best pins on 8, 9, and 10 are all back locations (imo), yet in the same round each of those pin locations would be different.  Every time.

Jordan
An interesting approach to maintenance if I've ever heard one.  
I've been gone a sec but I wanted to catch up with this discussion a bit.  The comparison to Bandon Dunes is unfair for Chambers.  Its an unfair comparison for 99% of public golf in this country (the definition of public vs. private is murky overseas so I'll shy away from that discussion).  Chambers is strong enough to stand on its on two feet and as a local you should be vocal in that opinion.  Its not anything other then Chambers Bay, a unique piece of property with a unique golf solution for said property.  The only problem I have with the place is the marketing campaign and that is by no means a knock on the golf course itself.  

[Norbert P]

Michael,

  and let's not forget ...  

  Alcohol! I only drink to make YOU more interesting.

[RJ_Daley]

...Chambers is strong enough to stand on its on two feet and as a local you should be vocal in that opinion.  Its not anything other then Chambers Bay, a unique piece of property with a unique golf solution for said property...

Joe, I like that approach.  Good point.

[Daryl David]

I get tired of hitting out of footprints in the waste areas/ bunkers. Happened 4 times.

I had a crazy thought about the waste areas.  It seems the sand within is so deep and so soft, the problem will never be fixed without adding something.  What about scooping out some of the sand and covering the areas in crushed oyster shells.  I have seen waste areas with that kind of material in the Southeast and there would certainly be an ample supply given the oyster industry on the Sound.  Probably a stupid idea, but if those areas don't firm up, they are basically unplayable.

[Bob Jenkins]

Sean,

 I have only played Chambers on GCA day late in May and caoot wait to go back to play it from turf as opposed to mats.

Your observations are bang on re 9 ( too much eye candy), 16, 12 , 10 and 1. Loved all of those holes.

What really got me going that day was the setting. Looking down at the course from above, and then stepping down onto the course, looking back up, out to the water, etc. Fabulous and very unique setting which is difficult to describe.

The other thing was the tees. Jay Blasi described them as ribbons from the fairways which they truly are. Very unique and posing all kinds of different tee shots, especially on the par 3s.

I hope to go back next spring and really look forward to it. Although I hate to sound agreeable (please forgive me, Jordan), there is something about people on this site not wanting to build up RTJII but they ("Bobby", Jay and gang) really got it right here and deserve a lot of credit.

See you guys on Saturday at the Home Course. Got leave from the boss so I will be down there.

Bob

[Sean Leary]

Bob J,

I look forward to seeing you as well.  Are you bringing Jordan's muzzle again to keep him from yapping too much?

DD,

I agree 100%. Something needs to be done.

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