Chambers Bay pics/thoughts

[Joe Bentham]

Was lucky enough to play Chambers Bay last Tuesday(8/27).  To busy enjoying having my lunch ate to take a lot of pictures but here is the best of what I got.
Missed number one green to the left and was left with this.

Standing on 2 green looking back down 16

#4, uphill par 5.  Guys in the group in front of us went for it in two and didn't even come close.  Plays at least a full club and a half up hill.

#9 drop shot par 3.  Groups on 18 and 1 green and standing in 18 fairway in the background.

You can better see the elevation change in this one.  18, 1 and 10 left to right in the background.

#10 green complex.  Reminded me of #6 at Stone Eagle.  In fact the entire property reminded me of Stone Eagle.  A nice variety of holes that are grassed together and holes that are independent of each other at both places.  Both make good use of tough golfing ground in similar fashions IMO

#12 short uphill par 4.  Huge amphitheatre like green at the top of the hill beckons your driver.  Great green that I failed to get of picture off because I was busy three jacking.

#15 par 3.  As good a one shotter as I've seen.  Although maybe not the best in a three hole stretch here.

#17 par 3.  The other world class short hole, also the best picture I took and the best shot I hit.

Would have gone from 18 green to 1 tee and played it again if I could've.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Great pictures Joe.

[RJ_Daley]

Would have gone from 18 green to 1 tee and played it again if I could've.

I have no doubt that will be the prevailing theme at CB.

[Jeff Doerr]

Joe,

It looks like the tractor treads are starting to fade. Also, the course and rough areas really look dried out. I'm guessing that the course is now running near where they want it. The pictures still confirm my conviction that next year (with the wet winter/spring rough growth) will really be real the coming out party for the beauty of the place.

Thanks for the update.

[Joe Bentham]

Jeff--
Still plenty of visible tractor tread.  The grass in the waste areas seems to favor the low spots of the treads, so you can really see them.  I actually thought they added to the aesthetic though.  Reminds one of the sites past uses.
  The waste areas are a big enough headache right now without any additional rough.  And with the pace being right at 5 hours, I'm not sure they'll allow it to come in thick.

[RJ_Daley]

The design quality it there in spades.  But, I think only half the battle is concluded or won.  The job of the super now becomes critical, and I don't think the last word is in on the course yet, by any stretch.  

Can, the super keep the rough areas playable to the extent of recovery and even finding balls as a pace of play issue?  Can he bring the FWs to a firm and fast, fescue dominant original concept, and particularly, maintain the short cut greens surrounds, F&F, fesuce dominant as designed?  If he does that, it goes to a world class leader, IMHO.

[Joe Bentham]

  For being such a baby I thought the conditions where great.  Certainly firm, fast and dry.
 I think the course encourages free swings with the driver, providing one with plenty of room to play.  The severity of the penalty for missing the fairway is fair, and lessens the closer one gets to the target.  I like the fact that most of the sand on the golf course is maintained as waste instead of hazard.  Greenside bunkering was all I really saw with rakes.  
 

[Joel_Stewart]

I talked with someone who played there last week and said the course needs 1 maybe 2 years to mature.  Does anyone agree?

[Tom_Doak]

Joel:

All fescue surfaces need a bit more time to mature than other grasses, and some of Chambers Bay was planted late last fall ... certainly the greens are not where they want them to be yet.  But,  it's fun to play as it is, and you can clearly see what it's about.

[RJ_Daley]

I'd love to hear a forum of real turf professionals discuss CB, and its prospects for achieving the kind of MM that would be ideal for such a design within the next 3-5 years.  Is it fair to say, the coming years will be a turf challenge?  I hope the turf community will all pitch in and collaborate with the local CB super to generate plenty of knowledge and ideas.  

[Tom_Doak]

RJ:  The super at Chambers Bay already has some pretty good help, since it's run by the same management company as Bandon and he can lean on those guys' experience.  Plus, in general, the fescue community in the US is relatively small and willing to share when anyone asks for support.

Unfortunately, not everyone asks; some have been learning the hard way.

[Richard Choi]

Joe, I was out there on Tuesday as well. Just a gorgeous day. Took my brother out there who was in town for vacation. Unfortunately, my brother didn't like the course that much as he could not get over the speed of greens (still pretty slow).

That was my 3rd round at CB and I believe that will be it for a year at least. It will take at least a year or more to get the greens to where you would expect them to be. And the green fees are just too high for a course that is really not ready.

P.S. I was the first group out and finished in about 4 hours (we took our time) and for that, we each received a free hat (only applicable to the first 3 groups of the day). I believe the average rounds are still closer to 5 hours than 4.

[Jerry Kluger]

My reaction to the photos is: Wow - that looks huge. Is the scale really as big as it looks?

[RJ_Daley]

Jerry, maybe it is just me... but in the extensive walk around I took just prior to it opening, it felt intimate and comfortable to me.  I think that is because it unfolds as a golf course at the base of a high earthen hill that is nearly a cliff, which leads up to a road and sidewalk that pass along the golf property.  Then, the other side that is still undeveloped part of the old gypsum mine and processing center leading to the dock is sprawling  but seems apart from the course except to border it.  Through the hole corridors, it is quite intimate through dunes, with a variety of openings that reveal various views through the course across other FWs.  It has a little of both sprawling and confined looks.

[Richard Boult]

RJ:  The super at Chambers Bay already has some pretty good help, since it's run by the same management company as Bandon and he can lean on those guys' experience.  Plus, in general, the fescue community in the US is relatively small and willing to share when anyone asks for support.

Monarch Dunes, which is also run by Kemper, opened 1 1/2 years ago here on the Central Coast. Their 85% fescue/15% rye fairways are just starting to get plush.  Still a few problem areas.

[Jordan Wall]

My reaction to the photos is: Wow - that looks huge. Is the scale really as big as it looks?

Jerry,

On the holes away from the water (4-9, 11, 14, 18) the scale of the course is huge.  Its awesome, really.
However, as Mr. Daley states, some holes are quite intimate as well.  The holes along the water (1-3, 10, 12, 13, 14-17) run trhoguh dunes and are, to an extent, there own hole, meaning the only hole you see is the one you are playing.  Its quite clever how the routing begins with the sense of intimacy, before showing the grand scale of the course, then closing with some intimate holes and ending with a hole that is intimate while still showing the grandness of the course.  It's great.

And yes, the scale is huge...awesome!


On another note, I played it again today and boy was it sure cool looking at 14 in the sunset...wow...where's the camera when you need it..
 

[Joe Bentham]

 

some holes are quite intimate as well.  The holes along the water (1-3, 10, 12, 13, 14-17) run trhoguh dunes and are, to an extent, there own hole, meaning the only hole you see is the one you are playing.  

Jordan
The picture of one green was taken (and my shot played) from what would be called 18 fairway.  

[Jordan Wall]

some holes are quite intimate as well.  The holes along the water (1-3, 10, 12, 13, 14-17) run trhoguh dunes and are, to an extent, there own hole, meaning the only hole you see is the one you are playing.  

Jordan
The picture of one green was taken (and my shot played) from what would be called 18 fairway.  

Joe,

That is true, from the bottom of the hill to the left of the green.
But still, #1 is more of an intimate hole rather than a hole which shows the scale of the course, though the fairway contours are huge to say the least, a good sign of things to come.  I think the first defining moment showing the scale of the course is #4, the par-5.  Its a great, great hole, and once you get to the tee box you just are kind of awed.  Its an awesome sight.

[Mark Pearce]

And with the pace being right at 5 hours

Right?  5 hours?  Good God, I don't care how good it is, 5 hours is ALWAYS at LEAST an hour too long for a round of golf.

[George Pazin]

Great photos, thanks for sharing them, you have a very good eye for choosing revealing angles.

[W.H. Cosgrove]

One 'new' feature that strikes me is the bareness of the waste areas after removal of the some of the more invasive species that inhabit many areas in the Pacific northwest.  Notably scotch broom that the crew could be seen pulling out for much of July.  

I also notice that a good portion of the bunker/waste area on 9 is groomed in the photo.  I know the plan was to smooth these areas on a regular schedule.  Has the schedule been increased or is it simply by chance that the grooming had been done recently?  

What other practices are being seen now that Chambers has a few months under their belt?

[Jon Wiggett]

Monarch Dunes, which is also run by Kemper, opened 1 1/2 years ago here on the Central Coast. Their 85% fescue/15% rye fairways are just starting to get plush.  Still a few problem areas.

Does anyone know the thinking behind mixing Rye grass in with the fescue? and is the % on weight or seed count?

[Mike Hendren]

I must admit I enjoyed every minute of my 5 hour round.  I noticed in my group and the group ahead that players unaccumstomed to walking were getting weary on the back nine.  In fact, it was not unusual for the group in front - two couples - to be walking off the tee when I arrived.  

There is a refreshment stand on the course that also slows down play as does the fact that one must pass right by the halfway house between 9 and 10.  

Five hour rounds will be the norm here.   That would in no way deter me from playing the course again.  Neither would the current conditioning for that matter.

Mike

[Jordan Wall]

I must admit I enjoyed every minute of my 5 hour round.  I noticed in my group and the group ahead that players unaccumstomed to walking were getting weary on the back nine.  In fact, it was not unusual for the group in front - two couples - to be walking off the tee when I arrived.  

There is a refreshment stand on the course that also slows down play as does the fact that one must pass right by the halfway house between 9 and 10.  

Five hour rounds will be the norm here.   That would in no way deter me from playing the course again.  Neither would the current conditioning for that matter.

Mike

That being said, by the time one reaches the stand or halfway house they are more than due for some drinks...

[Pete_Pittock]

Chambers Bay will get its first big test Oct 22-23 when it  hosts mens' collegiate golf Pac-10/Big 10 Challenge. And you think we play slow.     Probably will be an 8 am shotgun and play 36 or until dark.