Victoria Club (Behr) (pics)

[Jon Spaulding]

Finally made it out there yesterday....one of the hottest and most humid days I've ever experienced in SCA. Always been told this was a good course, by locals that have played in tournaments or qualifiers there. They were wrong, this is a great course!

Deep throat says that the original 9 at Victoria was designed by Charles Maud in 1903 and later remodeled by Max Behr. Originally known as Pedley Farms at Arlington, then Riverside Golf and Polo and then Victoria. Bell is rumored to have done some work on the course.

Today's version - par 72, 5 par 5's, 5 par 3's. Most interesting is that we see no par 4's after #12, and finish 5-5-3-5-5. Let the firing squad start assembling.

My Behr experience is very limited, but I did play Montecito in July and was told that there are a couple of original MB holes still in play; the ones playing up & down the hill. Noticed a few similarities between the 2 layouts but that is another topic altogether.

Of interest at Victoria were the decisions to be made on the 3-shotters, some unique bunkering, and a couple of directional features in play off the tee. Most interesting was the presence of an "Alps" feature on #15, which is a shortish par 5 in today's layout.  Wow .

Let's get started with the pictoral:

Tee shot on #2 - fairway on LH side. We tee of from a shared tee with #9, whose fairway is to the right (perhaps a hazard was once situated where the trees are today)


Approach to #2 - very unique bunkering


Close up of #2 fronting bunker


Spine on #2 green


#3 - tee shot with cross bunker


#3 - close up of grassed in cross bunker


#3 - movement around green


#4 - 2nd shot to par 5 easy lay up left or do we play for the angle to the right and skirt the creek?


#4 from behind green


#14 - 2nd shot to par 5; note bunkering


#15 tee shot......which leads us to


a second shot over the trees and bunkers or......


a layup to the alternate fairway across the hazard


still can't see much


until we get to about 50 yards from the pin




Comments???

[Billsteele]

Jon-Terrific pictures. The course has an intriguing look and you are right about the bunkers. With your power fade, where did you hit your tee ball on 15?

[Michael Dugger]

Your pictures go from #4 to #15.  Do you have any more?

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

The par 3's are very strong.  Not shown, but 11 and 13 are also great holes.  The 18th is a pretty awesome 5 that seems to hold up in the age of technology.  I used to play there frequently as a junior and still get out there occassionally.  Don Pooley grew up playing this course.  Gary McCord grew up at Canyon Crest, just across  the ravine from the 14th green.  The 1st green is a big generic circle done by Bell.  Tommy knows the extent of work that Bell did to the layout.
This is a terrific course that is hampered by an inability to be lengthened, so has fallen off the tournament circuit.

[Jon Spaulding]

BS - we were getting creamed in our match so I actually tried, and hit a slight draw on #15, leaving 180 in. Unfortunately my 4 was one of 3 in the group .

MD - I have more, but ran out of time on the earlier post. Will add a few tonight and some more over the weekend.

RMD - agreed on the par 3's, with the exception of #16. #13 was solid....and eerily similar to #14 at Montecito. I felt the par 5's were the star of the show; more depth and held more interest than what I'm used to seeing in SCA.

The first hole forced a WTF on my end....the worst of the 18. But we reconcile with #2 which is a great short 4. There's quite a shrine to Pooley & McCord in the clubhouse, which I did not invest the time to look at.

They did host the SCGA Amateur there this year; played as a par 71 with #17 losing par 5 status.

#18 is a great finisher that demands decisions....but I had 240 in after a marginal tee shot. Longer players would do well here, provided they can move the ball r-l off the tee and l-r on the 2nd shot .

Tee shot on 18


Walking up 18


Diagonal hazard fronting 18 green


Bail out area adjacent to 18 green


The mighty clubhouse


Bell's ovals on #1


Short par 3 #5


RH side of #5 green (15' deep )


Approach to #6


Tee shot #7


#7 fairway


#7 green looking back up to the elevated fairway


#8 tee shot


#8 from behind


#9 tee shot


#9 green

[Lynn_Shackelford]

I would not have wanted to play in that heat.
Too bad you didn't see the course in the 1970's before all the tree planting.  Without knowing much about architecture then, I thought it ranked with LACC, Riviera and Bel Air.  Certainly a notch above Wilshire and El Cab.

[Jon Spaulding]

I kept my morals partially intact and walked (did hitch a ride here & there).

Have not played El Cab, but I too would put it ahead of Wilshire, with or without trees. They could stand to lose a few, but overall I was not too offended; a number of holes have ample space between the tree line and the fairway.

[ed_getka]

Jon,
   Thanks for the pix and bringing this to our attention. These sort of posts are one of the great things about this site. It is amazing to me the number of courses like this that exist that most people don't know about. I'm going to see a course in this vein next month up in Michigan called Belvedere.

[Mike Sweeney]

Jon,

Thanks for the pics. These are the first I have seen of a Behr course. I was starting to think he was just Tom Paul's imaginary friend!

[Peter Pallotta]

Yes, Jon - thanks much.

I had a thread a long while back about flattish greens; I don't mind them nearly as much as some here seem to, and in fact depending on the course I sometimes like them very much.

To me, this is one of those instances. Not because it's Behr (well, maybe a little bit because it's Behr), but I think the whole look of the course is just swell; very pretty indeed, and 'all of one piece'.  To my eye the flattish greens go very well with the shallow, symmetrically-shaped bunkers, and with the lack of any severe undulations in the fairways.

The course seems very 'at ease' with itself, comfortable in its own skin; there's no sound and fury there, which in its way makes it all seem quite natural.

Peter

PS - some of the pictures remind me of one Joe Hancock posted on the naked Par 3 thread.  I think we too often take holes like that too much for granted.

[David Stamm]

Jon,

Thanks for the pics. These are the first I have seen of a Behr course. I was starting to think he was just Tom Paul's imaginary friend!

Mike, I posted a thread with pics of another Behr course, Rancho Santa Fe, around the beginning of the year. I'll see if I can dig them up for you.

[David Stamm]

Jon, your pic of the 5th reminds me of the green on 15 at LA North.

[Robert_Ball]

Thanks Jon,

Looking at #6 it doesn't appear too difficult- wide fairway, open in front of green. But apparently it was one of the toughest in the SCGA Amateur.   Are there some subtleties to the hole that can't be seen in that pic?

Robert

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Looks great. Interesting club history:

http://scga.org/FOREWEB/may07/victoria.html

[Jon Spaulding]

EG; agreed. There is reward in turning up good work so enthusuiasts don't have to play the Encinitas Ranches of the world.

MS; in some ways, Behr is everyone's imaginary friend. I've played few courses with his name on them, but his ghost  spends most of the round vomiting. Not as bad at VC; a few strategic elements which I find unmatched down this way.

PP; the greens are certainly flattish (a few exceptions), and allegedly kept at a decent pace. The pictures were taken with the greens wetted down to cope with the heat. I have no clue as to Behr's design, and knowing that Bell has been in there......even still the place seems to be in agreement with itself save a few places.

DS; you must have been drinking last night. That green is perpendicular to the tee shot while LA's in parallel. PUI is a still a misdemeanor in CA; I know someone that can get you off .

RB; #6 was a driver/8 iron/10' putt for a 3 . The green was fairly undulating (moreso than most).... but the greens were watered down. Also, the bermuda fairways play relatively firm. I would guess that the difficulty stems from the rough that was grown in for the tournament (5-6"), trees on both sides, and the length of the hole (455 or so). Under our conditions I found it very uninteresting in the stretch of holes it falls into. Here's a photo of the greensite, looking back towards the tee, and the tee shot:

[David Stamm]

 

DS; you must have been drinking last night. That green is perpendicular to the tee shot while LA's in parallel. PUI is a still a misdemeanor in CA; I know someone that can get you off .

 

I was talking about the green itself. I really wasn't sure looking at it where the tee shot was coming from, but now it makes sense. You're just going to have to show me in person.