Adventures in Landscape Architecture redux

[W.H. Cosgrove]

When is this an appropriate planting on a golf course?  

Do you find this appealing?

Would you undertake this creation at your course?  

Further comments?

I will supply further input following your scholarly comments.

[Glen Rapoport]

is that the playboy mansion being hidden by the nice pine forrest beyond?


Glen

[W.H. Cosgrove]

Glen I can hardly put one or two breasts over on you!

[Peter Zarlengo]

In my two years of education in landscape architecture, I find the planting rather appropriate. Obviously, the main objective is to create visual seperation to the exterior. I see this strategy used on many golf courses blocking maintenance yards and pump stations. It seems that evergreen trees are used more frequently.

In my opinion, the planting is probably too close to the green for such a dense cluster. And I've never been much of a proponant of evergreen trees on golf courses, but I dont know where the courses resides and the native flora.

[paul cowley]

I don't think I will run out there and copy it, but it seems to fit its context....so I will give it a pass.

The addition of OB stakes directly in front of the hedge would spice up the holes play strategy a habanero or two.

[Greg Cameron]

Mr.Cosgrove,I believe the trees/shrubs in question are" thuya pyramadalis"very common in the wet coast suburbs.Cannot tell from picture,,but was a string line used when planted 10-12 years ago(1ft. per year?)Usually accompanied with a 5-6 ft home depot cedar panel fence,and as I did, a rhodo or 2 thrown in for creative purposes.....Greg

[Clyde Johnston]

I personally find the soldier planting visually unappealing but like some of the others, I would imagine the tree/shrubs have a purpose that we don't know about.

At least it's better than a chain link fence.

[W.H. Cosgrove]

Time for more information....

These Arbovitae were planted for a variety of reasons depending on who you might talk to.

#1 to provide a backdrop to the green providing depth perception.  I might say that the green with its uphill approach was meant to be more of a skyline look.

#2 to provide saftey to the tee that sits another 20 feet behind the green.  Does this provide safety?

#3 to provide a screen from the motion on the tee behind the hedge.  

The hedge is internal to the golf course.  There is no free drop for balls hit through it.  and there a several fines specimens directly behind it.  

Now is there any valid reason for its existence?



As it might be

[BCrosby]

Jeez, I think they look awful.

Surely there is a more natural way to serve the same functions. No?

That's the kind of look you see behind restaurants trying to hide their dumpster.

Bob

[Jon Wiggett]

To me it looks better without.

[Clyde Johnston]

I assume the bottom picture is the before photo, which is definitely more appealing. I don't think depth perception is a reason to install the plants. Eliminating depth perception is one of the tools (tricks) of my trade, which creates doubt in the mind of the golfer. I can't remember the last course I played that didn't have the yardages on the sprinkler heads - trust the yardage.

Using safety as a reason has some validity but not enough for me. With the plantings in place, do golfers still yell "fore" when they hit their ball in that direction? It would also seem that the golfers would know that tee is close to the green and use some discretion with when they hit their approach shots. Granted, I would never design a tee that close to a green but I do believe that once you step foot onto a golf course, you are assuming some risk of being hit by an errant shot.

Screening motion is pretty lame also. I think the plantings are too much of a penalty that close to a green.

[W.H. Cosgrove]

The top picture is how they exist today.  Actually the first photo in the post was taken yesterday 8/8/07.

The bottom photo is the retouched version showing what it would look like with the plants removed.  

Regarding safety:  If you can't see the danger does it make it more or less safe?

[Mike_Young]

As one with absolutely zero landscape architecture training..I would assume the trees in question are planted for one of those cingular commercials with all the bars.....the two large evergreens bother me just as much.....looks like a pretty good panorama behind them....

[Clyde Johnston]

Regarding safety:  If you can't see the danger does it make it more or less safe?

That's a good question. If it's a course where you have a lot of players unfamiliar with the situation, I would say it is less safe. Personally, I prefer to see the risk and make my own decision. The last thing I want to do is hit someone with a marginally errant shot.

[Joe Hancock]

As one with absolutely zero landscape architecture training..I would assume the trees in question are planted for one of those cingular commercials with all the bars.....the two large evergreens bother me just as much.....looks like a pretty good panorama behind them....

I was thinking "graphic equalizer".....

[Sean Leary]

Cos,  

Might be a NW thing.  Everett CC has very similar looking bushes, and they play the same way.

[Clyde Johnston]

The top picture is how they exist today.  Actually the first photo in the post was taken yesterday 8/8/07.

The bottom photo is the retouched version showing what it would look like with the plants removed.  

Regarding safety:  If you can't see the danger does it make it more or less safe?

OK, I'll bite. Are you having an issue with your greens committee?

[W.H. Cosgrove]

I have had an issue for some time.  In fact, longer than I would like to admit.  The committee has voted at least twice to remove them.  The Board under fire from a minority, prevented us from moving forward.  Recently, a board member hit his ball in the darn things in a tournament and he fianlly saw the argument for removal in an entirely different light.  Back it came to the committee which is now wringing their hands at having to do something difinitive.  

Some have suggested Pruning, so I prepared this example:

"Image removed by Writer "

While still protecting the next tee it manages to make a 'point.'

[Brett Hochstein]

regarding the original questions:

-not really ever.  the only instances i would advocate such columnar plantings would be places where they are naturally common, like the mediterranean.  such an organized line of what may be a fastigious cultivar of arborvitae is just way out of character visually and functionally

-only in a strange way, entirely not golf related and definitely not when placed adjacent to a green site

-i would not. it is simply too unusual an application of planting. unless the site is the blankest of blank slates and the design objective to create something wholly unusual and unnatural, these plants do not make much sense

-no further comments

regards to the safety issue:  they may slow down balls coming that way, but the visual curtain given likely reduces the amounts of "fore" given, bringing up a separate safety issue just as dangerous

[Jeff_Brauer]

I prefer the last example. I have actually built similar bunker shapes to subliminally convey my design intent, but when the owner recognizes it, it goes away!

I don't like the look of straight line planting, in general or that close to the green.  The biggest problem is what happen if one dies?  In random planting, the result is still random, but in straight lines whatever effect you have is ruined......

That said, its still sometimes necessary.  I recall that early in my career, I went to pick out a similar line of trees for use behind the third green at Kemper Lakes, since OB was close behind.  I had to mark the north side of each tree so we could get them back in exact relationship to each other, without unsightly bare areas and gaps.

[paul cowley]

W.H......I'll bite too and try to be serious, as liability is not to be taken lightly.

Is it an issue?

Have players been injured in the past?

Its hard to tell from the photos, but my guess would be that most players are hitting higher lofted clubs to the green....and, if this is so, do they airmail balls over the green to the tee in the rear, or do balls just run over to the tee in question?

Does the hedge serve more as a visual barrier, or is it acting as a safety barrier as well?

[Jeff Doerr]

I don't think I will run out there and copy it, but it seems to fit its context....so I will give it a pass.

The addition of OB stakes directly in front of the hedge would spice up the holes play strategy a habanero or two.

This seems to have a little parrallel with #6 at Southern Hills, or at least Angel might think so...

Seriously, is the next tee where it was first designed? What are some of the best barrier techniques to protect an older course that is adding length inside the course?

[W.H. Cosgrove]

Mr. Brauer many thanks for the vote on the improved pruning idea.  I'll resist quoting your credentials at the next meeting

The tee was added, the course is private and most players are hitting mid irons (7-5) into the green.  While a minority during summer will be hitting wedges.  The issue for playability surrounds the loss of any ability of attacking a rear pin.  I would much rather be in a position of hitting the ball short than risking hitting the ball into this mess.  A long shot should be allowed to go through the green and would roll away and to the right.  That is simply not an option at this time.  Most of the balls through the hedge now are the result of thin chips and pitches, probably penalizing the less skilled golfers.

As far as safety is concerned, I think they provide false security.  And if this were the greatest concern a less obtrusive solution is planned closer to the tee and much more local.  Ultimately, the tee should move to the right where we could harvest another 20 or so yards on the following 425 yard hard dog leg left that follows.  

The lesson for me has been that even when there are few good reasons for keeping a feature like this, the resistance to change is an extremely powerful force.  In the face of a course that is going backward and fighting reduced budgets, we have been unable to complete even this inexpensive change.  When what is really required to reinvigorate the club s a comprehensive master plan leading us forward.

I only hope to live long enough, the course itself, Oakbrook G&CC, has been described by one of the Washington States top amateurs as the best hidden gem.  When you come to play Chambers Bay, stop in to see if the Arborvitae still exist.

[Marty Bonnar]

Another example for your delectation:



Sorry about the quality of the pic, but this was THE most miserable day of that winter and there was just no light available.

It's hard to tell the scale of this 'object' but those trees are about 25 feet high. There's some idea of scale from the teeing ground. It is a fairly shocking sight to be had on one of Edinburgh's quite prestigious (i.e. Posh!) courses.

I remember thinking that if it was a 'theme' developed around the rest of the golf course it could have been quite a lark (and a bit of a talking point.) Perhaps the five Platonic Solids in gi-normous Cupressi or something?

FBD.

[Norbert P]

  Obviously they like trees wherever they are. That's a strato-bunker.

BTW, I like your photoshop modification.