Philadelphia Golf

[Sean Leary]

Philly and beef sandwiches?

Sorry, Wayne - Buffalo NY rules here - Beef on Weck is heaven and it's really only available in Buffalo:

Dan,

There is a Buffalo Deli here in Seattle that makes an incredible Beef on a weck. I had no idea that it was a Buffalo thing, despite the name.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Since this has turned into a food thread, here are some pics from White House in Atlantic City:

[wsmorrison]

Jim,

New chef and new cheesesteaks at Merion.  Give it a try once more and you should not be disappointed.  Now, if they run out of long rolls and ask if you want the cheesteak on another bread, politely decline.  It must be on a long roll.  By the way, I hope all you out of towners get fried onions on your cheesesteaks and avoid the Cheez Wiz, that stuff is nasty.

Sorry, Dan.  That looks like raw beef (and very little of it) on a roll that fell on the ground and is covered with bugs.  Have you ever been to Nick's?  Perfect before a Phillies game (they are kicking Met's butt lately) or on a dedicated trip.  Then there is Cut Above Deli---close and good enough for this suburban guy.

Steve,

Have you ever tried the Hot Italian Tuna Hoagie at Tony Luke's?  Excellent albacore tuna with spicy pepper Jack cheese and extra virgin olive oil.  Hmmmm good!  Though the White House sandwiches are looking mighty fine his morning.

Roast Italian Pork with Broccoli Rabe from Tony Luke:



Chicken Parm from Tony Luke:

[Mike_Cirba]

Wayne:

You mentioned the Merion Clubhouse on your list of favorite cheesesteaks. I ordered cheesesteaks the last two times I was there and was disappointed both times. It has been 3 years since I was at Merion, but I plan to be back up there in late September. Have they improved their cheesesteaks? Have you had one there recently?  We will be staying at the Radnor. Which of the cheesesteak joints places you mentioned is fairly close?

Jim

Jim,

I think they did a restoration to a more authentic, historically accurate version.

Prior, I heard that only the rolls were from 1930.  

[Dan Herrmann]

There's a pretty good steak to be had out here in Chester Co at John's on US30 in Frazer.  Not bad at all for the 'burbs.

It's close to Chester Valley GC.

Back to golf - on my way to the Phillies game yesterday, I made the drive past FDR golf course.  Does anybody know anything about it, other than it's easy?

[JESII]

As a Philly guy, I am embarrassed...


By the way, Steve's in Northeast Phila. is the best in the city...without question, but no pictures please...

[wsmorrison]

Dan, From GolfPhilly.com:

F.D.R. Golf Club

The origins of the course are somewhat hazy, but it appears F.D.R. Golf Club was built as a WPA project, and construction may have started as early as 1933; certainly it was finished no later than 1940 and most likely several years earlier. According to several sources, the land was set aside to build twenty-seven holes, which would have been an incredible undertaking considering the time and circumstances, but only eighteen were constructed. The course was originally known s League Island Golf Club and was shortly renamed after President Franklin Delano Roosevelt..

What is known is that the routing has been changed several times; in its early days, the course played some 200 yards longer than it does now. One-source credits Ed Clarey with the design, but this is not known with certainty.

Today, FDR plays to 6,004 yards from the back tees, with a par of 69. From the middle tees it is listed at 5,720 yards and from the front, 5,406 yards. The course ratings for men are 68.7 and 69,7 and the slope ratings 110 and 113. From the forward markers, the course rating is 69.9 for women, with a slope of 115.

Over the last few years several upgrades have been made to FDR and the other City Courses. The main thrust of renovations to F.D.R. Golf Club have been directed towards drainage efforts since roughly two-thirds of the property is below sea level. Canals leading from the old Philadelphia Naval Shipyard run through the club, and despite a system of floodgates, the course has been prone to flooding in the past, most notably during last Septemberís hurricane. The floodgates have been renovated in the past several month and the problem has been corrected. Overall the course has benefited from the recent renovations and the course is in very good shape and is touted for its finely groomed greens.

There are some interesting holes at F.D.R. and the routing pattern has changed from the original layout, but the course is very beginner friendly. The landing areas are very open and generous and the greens allow for bump and run approaches. The layouts primary defense is the prevailing winds, which seems to change drastically over the course of a round and the canal that winds through the course and comes into play on ten holes. Golfers are also rewarded with spectacular views of Center City Philadelphia to the north.

And, just to piss Sully off, a photo of Steve's Prince of Steaks cheesesteak:

[Rob_Waldron]

Now you guys are making me hungry and very homesick. There is nothing like this in the DC area.

[Joe Bausch]

I've just been added to GolfClubAtlas and this is my first post.  I live in the Philly area and love golf and food.  I have my own 'Philly golf web page' with many photos of local courses, and some not so local (like recent photos of Bethpage Black).  If you are interested in my thoughts on the courses (and I'm sure I'll get loads of feedback!), go here:

http://tinyurl.com/ym2q2f

I also keep a web page with comments on Main Line restaurants if you might be interested in those, which are here:

http://tinyurl.com/y24qjx

I just went to Garrett Hill pizza for a cheesesteak and it was fantastic.  And I just got back from another visit to Bethpage Black and the only way that could be better was if the restaurant served a good Philly cheesesteak!

[Dan Herrmann]

Joe -Welcome!  Great to have another Philly guy onboard.

Nice website!

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Wayne et al,


I nominate Tony Luke's at the site of the next Philly GCA Outing. Who needs to play golf?

I haven't had the Roast Pork with Broccoli Rabe in about 5 years plus the ambiance at TL is without equal.

www.roadfood.com/Reviews/Overview.aspx?RefID=1232

[Mike_Cirba]

Dan/Wayne,

That source regarding the architect of FDR was moi.  

Actually, the architect was local pro Edward Clarey working with Fairmount park Engineer Alan Corson.

Corson also did the layout for Juniata, working with "local golf architects", and Edward Clarey was the first pro there.

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

Merion and Pine Valley would be worth the trip alone --- and just about no matter where you live or are coming from. I would also consider:

Rolling Green - for the par 3's alone

Aronimink - Ross restored classic, great green complexes, brute length, terrific course conditions (but I'm a homer)

Huntingdon Valley - Over Manufacturers, but that's just my opinion

Gulph Mills - I'm Ross-centric, to be sure, and this is a really incredible course.


Chinks for cheesteaks!

Thank God you're here keep these Flynn-o-philes in line.  Rolling Green, Huntington Valley, Phila. CC, Mannies, Lehigh, and Lancaster are all fantastic courses... but certainly behind Aronimink and possibly even Gulph Mills.

And, don't forget scrapple.  How I long for a nice slab that's crisp on the outside smothered in either ketchup or syrup (not picky).  

[wsmorrison]

Wayne,

You have to change your name...sorry.  Electing Aronimink over Rolling Green and Huntingdon Valley?  Are you related to Mike Malone by any chance  

[Dan Herrmann]

Flynn rocks.  'Nuff said

(Laura played her first 'full' Flynn last week - Lehigh.  She's been spoiled for life)

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Wayne,

You have to change your name...sorry.  Electing Aronimink over Rolling Green and Huntingdon Valley?  Are you related to Mike Malone by any chance  

I have yet to see Aronimink, and would like to.  What Ross courses is it comparable to, in terms of scale of bunkers, fairways, etc?  I am curious.  And thank you.  

[Jason Mandel]

The Chicket Cutlet Italiano(Chicken Cutlet with Spinach or Broccoli Rabe, and sharp provalone) served at Tony Luke's is the #1 sandwich in philadelphia.  its similar to the chicken parm that wayne showed but better!!!

Best cheesesteak is not a hands down winner, it depends on the mood.  I love Dalessandro's cheesesteak and rank it up there, but I go to Chubby's more often for their chicken cheesesteak, it just sits better at lunch when u have to go back to work:)

John's roast pork does have a fantastic cheesesteak.

White House is fantastic as well... God the food is good here !

[Doug Braunsdorf]

The Chicket Cutlet Italiano(Chicken Cutlet with Spinach or Broccoli Rabe, and sharp provalone) served at Tony Luke's is the #1 sandwich in philadelphia.  its similar to the chicken parm that wayne showed but better!!!

Best cheesesteak is not a hands down winner, it depends on the mood.  I love Dalessandro's cheesesteak and rank it up there, but I go to Chubby's more often for their chicken cheesesteak, it just sits better at lunch when u have to go back to work:)

John's roast pork does have a fantastic cheesesteak.

White House is fantastic as well... God the food is good here !

Jason,

  I have Tony Luke Jr.'s 2 blocks away (18th just north of Walnut)  It's a good chicken parm sandwich.  I am also partial to Lenny's, on Fayette St., in Conshohocken, when I am out that way.  He makes a very good roast pork, as well as chicken parm.  Haven't had a cheesteak from him yet.  
My taste buds, although singed, still prefer the mild provolone over sharp.  But that's just me.  

I had Dalessandro's on Saturday afternoon, after work and checking out Walnut Lane;  'wit' provolone, mushroom, pepper, and onion; it's ok, but to me, it's not very filling; after one, I find myself wanting another. How about you?  

[mike_malone]

 Sean,

     I would suggest a strong dose of Flynn because the "variety" here, in a small area ,is unequalled , possibly, for any designer anywhere else. So, after the obligatory PV and Merion I would focus on the Flynns previously mentioned and then you can bring your insightful architectural mind to our understanding of his place in the pantheon of gca's.

  I can't add to the food discussion since my diet is too bland.

  BTW my medical leave at Rolling Green has ended, so I look forward to your visit there.

[Kyle Harris]

This may get me crucified, but I'm not sure I agree that Flynn has much variety in the Philadelphia area. Is the topo different between Mannies, HVCC, and Rolling Green (for example), sure. I just don't see much variety in terms of doing something really different with the landforms. As we get away from Philadelphia, Flynn's variety seems to take shape (especially at Lancaster).

About the only thing I can think of that's really different in terms of tendencies with Flynn is the comparison of the first holes at HVCC and Mannies... at HVCC the first tumbles down the side of the hill while at Mannies he takes it directly down the hill.

[JESII]

Kyle,

Would you agree that the along the hill (HVCC) versus straight up and down the hill theme (MGC) holds throughout the course?

Not many sidehill lies at Mannies...

[Kyle Harris]

Kyle,

Would you agree that the along the hill (HVCC) versus straight up and down the hill theme (MGC) holds throughout the course?

Not many sidehill lies at Mannies...

Yes, I do agree with that. I believe that it may be because of the requirements of designing 27 holes at HVCC, at least in part.

If Flynn had set out to build 18 at Huntingdon Valley, I think the course may have been a bit different, as to whether or not that would change the nature of the opening holes, I don't know.

[JESII]

Interesting...

I had never thought of it that way...I assume they would have purchased a somewhat smaller lot, although maybe not.

What is interesting to me is how the C-nine is so clearly segregated from the A and B nines...I wonder what the reasoning for that was...

I have heard from Wayne that Flynn's marching orders were to create increasinly more difficult nines, but would that in itself dictate the C-nine being off where it is?

[Kyle Harris]

My other speculation is because of the proximity of the creek to the clubhouse. I have yet to see a Flynn opener with any sort of water in play, let alone in front of a potential green site.

Though, if one considered HVCC's B-C nines to be a course in its own right, then B-1 would go against this though, even if the creek is encountered off the tee.

I am hardly the person to speak about any tendencies Flynn had with designs, though.

The C-Nine disparity always intrigued me as well, and I often wonder why he didn't start the new nine near the putting green and down the present driving range. Though C-1 is good enough, IMO, to merit the separation.

[mike_malone]

 Kyle,

    How about the first holes at RG and PCC (I think that is the present #4)? Aren't they even more different than Mannies and HVCC ?