Bountiful BEAU DESERT GC

[Sean_A]

ATB

It depends on how straight hitting that handicap golfer is.  I would expect a 10 capper to maybe hit the 9th 1 in 10 assuming he is long enough (likely less in truth) and he gets par 6 in 10 by going for it. I think laying back may have the same results...6 in 10. I've seen it go badly wrong both ways 

The one thing a driver does is open the possibility of a kiss on the card.  So yes, from a pragmatic PoV...nearly all should lay-up on 9. I rarely score well around Beau because I am not straight enough.  However, I recall once in one of their opens I scored a 77...which for me is awesome round that course...still only 3 shots lower than my cap (Beau is a much harder SSS of 71 because the difficulty of Beau is not the yardage so the system of rating doesn't work well here) I did it by not taking on a single temptation offered by the design.  I gotta say, it was a boring round.  I recall playing your 12th and 13th a few weeks back by laying up.  One time it worked, the other it didn't, but there was no sense of fun on either hole.

Ciao

[Richard Fisher]

Prompted by major GCA enthusiasm (especially from Sean) and the older endorsement of Frank Pennink, I finally got to BDGC on Tuesday afternoon for a quiet midweek round on my own, deliberately following behind three members. As with almost all British inland courses this (very wet) spring and summer, the course was evidently much lusher than normal for July, although the greens were still pleasingly firm and swift. It was a showery, blustery afternoon, and I thought the course lovely, if not perhaps at quite the level some GCA adherents project (but then the experience of one single round is never a good guide): some bits akin to Hollinwell, some bits akin to Swinley, and overall for me at the level of (say) Delamere, which I returned to yesterday with some Harlech friends and which was equally and unusually green and lush for mid-July. Clearly BDGC has an active programme of tree removal, opening up some of the vistas, although the unslightly ring of leylandii (?) around the 18th green presumably has to remain for safety reasons. My only criticism, made before by others, would be of the bunkers, too many of which seemed (in contrast to Delamere) of the flat inland pancake variety. The green sites were every bit as good and interesting as I had been led to believe. Incidentally, at the much-discussed 9th, I went with a driver off the tee, carved right, lost the ball, and ended with a seven. Risk/reward in spades...

£45 on the County Card for 18 holes of this quality was excellent value, and very good bacon and lentil soup too, even if the clubhouse (with its odd entrances, and the large and deserted bar and dining area downstairs) seemed not quite to come together. But lots of mementoes of celebrated midland golfers of the past (Dr Tweddell, the Lunts, Beharrell, etc etc: even Henry Longhurst (Bedfordshire) made a cameo appearance on one poster) to keep this golf historian happy and engaged.

A Staffordshire mini-break of Little Aston and BDGC would make for a terrific couple of days of distinctly English inland golf. And with the £ at its current levels, distinctly accessible to overseas visitors too. Warmly recommended.

[Sean_A]

Richard

Your comparison to Delamere is interesting.  I think Beau is the better course for two reasons.  1. The greens are miles more interesting...Delamere's biggest weakness.  2. There are more really good holes.  Where Delamere trumps is with better rough/tree control...Beau's biggest issues.  I need to risk the misery of the M6 and get back up to Delamere.

Ciao

[Duncan Cheslett]

Sean,


Have you ever played Delamere's very near neighbour Sandiway?  Which is the better course is a topic of much local debate.


I suggest a double header one day...


http://www.sandiwaygolf.co.uk/

[Thomas Dai]

Sandiway certainly looks pretty inviting from the weblink.


Not much about the course herein that I could find though.


Atb

[Duncan Cheslett]

I love Sandiway Thomas, and would put it on a par with Delamere Forest and Beau Desert. Indeed, it has a lot in common with both those courses. I am puzzled as to why it is less well known.


Sandiway is generally thought of as being one of the very best inland courses in North-West England.

[Sean_A]

Sean,


Have you ever played Delamere's very near neighbour Sandiway?  Which is the better course is a topic of much local debate.


I suggest a double header one day...


http://www.sandiwaygolf.co.uk/

Duncan

I have never been enticed to play Sandiway.  I recall seeing photos and thinking there is a lot of much of muchness going on with the bunkering and shape of holes.  What are your thoughts?

Ciao

[Sean_A]

All


See the updated tour.  More importantly, it looks like the club is going to work with the Forestry Commission to aggressively tackle the tree issues.  So far as I can tell, in year 1, which might be this winter, not sure:


Left of #s 1, 2 & 4-8 will be dramatically thinned up to the paths.


There may also be some clearing on the right from halfway down 6 to halfway down 8.  If not, probably year 2. 


In year 2 left of the last half 8 through and 9 & 10 to be dealt with. 


The large swaths of interior trees are also being targeted. Surrounding the 16th is a target. The huge area of trees between 12-15 9 and halfway up 13 are other targets.


There are also some plans for more exterior work, but that is not yet confirmed. 


Hopfully, in the next few years we will see a radical transformation of the course with between 50 and 75% of trees in targeted areas removed.  Now we can only hope the club recognizes its poor bunkering for the course to shine as it should.


Ciao

[Ben Voelker]

All


See the updated tour.  More importantly, it looks like the club is going to work with the Forestry Commission to aggressively tackle the tree issues.  So far as I can tell, in year 1, which might be this winter, not sure:


Left of #s 1, 2 & 4-8 will be dramatically thinned up to the paths.


There may also be some clearing on the right from halfway down 6 to halfway down 8.  If not, probably year 2. 


In year 2 left of the last half 8 through and 9 & 10 to be dealt with. 


The large swaths of interior trees are also being targeted. Surrounding the 16th is a target. The huge area of trees between 12-15 9 and halfway up 13 are other targets.


There are also some plans for more exterior work, but that is not yet confirmed. 


Hopfully, in the next few years we will see a radical transformation of the course with between 50 and 75% of trees in targeted areas removed.  Now we can only hope the club recognizes its poor bunkering for the course to shine as it should.


Ciao

Sean,


As you know, I joined Beau last year, in large part thanks to yourself.


I don't know what's considered year 1 either, but significant tree clearing was carried out last year in a number of areas:


Right of 4
Between 11 and 12
Left of 12


I am probably missing a few as that's off the top of my head, but as you suggest, there is a multi-year tree management program in place.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Sean, that is a welcome change. I'm not sure how playability will change but it will be grand to open up some vistas. This is one of my favorite places and I remember our day so well. I can't wait to get back.

[Sean_A]

Tommy

After the hugely more playable clearance on 7 its hard to fathom the club would not want to move ahead with more tree clearance.  I think it would help a bunch when trees are cleared left of 2, 5 & 6 and right of 6.  I don't think plans are firm for 11, but clearance on both sides, but especially left would really help playability.  The hole makes little sense now as trees take away probably 5-7 yards of prime approaching area on the left.   I think clearing right of #1 would also be good. Just from an aesthetic PoV, clearance behind the 3rd and 6th greens and all down the right of #5 across thru 15 and up to 12 would be good...imagine the cool views!  Being treed in fairly in recent in history, Beau is not blessed with a significant number of cool trees....probably 90% could go!

Ben

I hope you are enjoying your membership.  I am back on Monday!

Ciao

[Thomas Dai]

I played Beau a few weeks ago after a gap of probably 3 yrs and was very pleased so see how much tree removal had taken place. Lots more so go I suggest, but then Rome again was wasn't built in a day and all that.


Another tree related area is low lying, self-seeding scrub. There's quite a bit at Beau that could also be removed. Not just Beau either. Far from it. Almost all UK inland courses, whether heathland or parkland seem to have large areas of scrub and self-seeded growth under and within trees. Clubs really ought to keep this in check and with modern machinery it shouldn't be that difficult if programmed properly. And once it's been cut back to ground level it can often be mown with the usual rough cutter and then it will stay low or non-existent and not require 'blitzing' in the future.


atb

[Robin_Hiseman]

I played with Sean at BD last Tuesday and thought it was magnificent.


One note of caution with the wholesale forest removal that has taken place beyond the boundary. Judging by a recent Google Earth, it would seem these areas have been replanted, so enjoy the views whilst you can.

[Sean_A]

I am far more concerned about the tree reduction for playability and agronomy reasons.  That said, there are some good opportunities for interior views with tree removal.

I played Beau today and the course was nearly perfect.  The few hit days have firmed things up and the greens were running a perfect speed.  I don't think I have ever seen Beau look or play better.

Ciao

[Thomas Dai]

After a gap of a couple of years I made it back to wonderful Beau Desert and what a delightful course it is.
Some photos below as refreshers as to its general delightfulness and Herbert Fowlers magnificent green complexes.
atb


Below - from rear of 18th green



Below - from rear of 5th green



Below - from rear-left of 6th green



Below - from rear of 14th green



Below - from front-left of 16th green



Below - from front-left of the 5th green



Below - from right side of 9th green



Below - from rear-left of 16th green



Below - from rear of 7th green

[Ben Voelker]

Hi Folks,


Just a quick update on tree removal at Beau.  We are in the midst of another round of tree clearing on various holes so I'll share some photos as I have them.  The first set are from 5, 6 and 14.  Apologies for the poor quality but they were from my phone on a horrible day of weather!


Note these are from more than 1 week ago now, and I know there has been further clearing on 5 (greenside), 14 (greenside) and 15 (tee) in the last week, and more planned throughout the winter.


Hole 5






Hole 6




Hole 14

[Sean_A]

Ben

Thanks for the updates. It's remarkable what can be accomplished once the ball is rolling downhill. It's very satisfying since I have long admired Beau Desert's design. I want to have another look!

Happy Hockey

[Robin_Hiseman]

I was fortunate to play Beau Desert yesterday with Ally Mcintosh in the most perfect September weather imaginable.


Last summer, we were both very lucky to be able to play Crystal Downs with Tom Doak and we both felt that the greens at Beau Deesrt bear distinct similarity to those we experienced at Crystal Downs. The severity of the camber is what sets them apart. The Crystal Downs greens are quicker and more treacherous, whilst BD's run at 9 or so and are therefore manageable but confounding.


If BD's greens were up at 11 or so they would be unplayable. As they are they were great fun and as a set, one of the most distinctive in the British Isles.

[Sean_A]

Hey Doc, what do you think of the work on 18?

Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

Definitely a similarity between Crystal Downs and Beau Desert greens with the on edge amount of tilt applied to many of them (i.e. minimal softening over the years). Some of the rolls and undulations on a few of the greens were also reminiscent.


I thoroughly enjoyed Beau Desert but did not fall in love with it. Outside the greens, I’m not sure there were enough standout holes. Really liked 5,6,7 tumbling down the backside of the property… 9 & 10 was a cute wee corner if a little more claustrophobic than it needed to be. Plus the strong finish (much down to the greens).


1st tee-shot and approach in to 18 are stunning but Sean, to answer your question above, I wasn’t overly enamoured with the added bunkers splitting 18 fairway, even if the primary objective was to force a layup on the grounds of safety. I’m led to believe by Robin that the work at the green site is a huge improvement.


Still, fantastic day and above is just being choosy. To steal from your own playbook, who needs great when very good gives us all we want.

[Sean_A]

I am not sure what you mean about 18. The new bunkers opens up the drive. The number of bunkers is the same, just repositioned.

Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

I am not sure what you mean about 18. The new bunkers opens up the drive. The number of bunkers is the same, just repositioned.

Ciao

I don’t know what was there before?


I just saw newly shaped mounds and bunkers with such a narrow fairway in between that no-one in their right mind would ever think of taking it on (if they were long enough).


What was there before?


EDIT: After heeding Robin’s advice below to look back at earlier photos, I see the change. From a functionality point of view, it makes no difference: No-one takes that slot on. From an aesthetic point of view, it opens up the view to the green nicely.


I wouldn’t have kept the left bunker if an option was desired to be added from the tee. In addition, it’s blind from the white tee. I didn’t know it was there until I  walked up and found my perfectly struck tee-ball within three feet of the edge.

[Robin_Hiseman]

Ally:


I did slightly misrepresent Sean's thoughts. Looking back through this thread you can see that 18 previously had another fairway split, which stopped the drive in its tracks. The change has added the space between the bunkers which wasn't there previously. I think I misheard Sean's criticism of how it used to be as criticism for how it is now.


That said, it is still narrow and i would think very difficult to thread through that gap from the high yellow tees, which hit into a downslope. We played off the lower white tees and were hitting into the camber, which helped to hold up the ball.


I like the work at the green. It is much, much better than before. Those Leylandii were horrendous. The very worst example of committee led design you could wish to encounter.

[Sean_A]

I much prefer the drive and green now compared to last year. It reduces the huge advantage biggish hitters had over the likes of me.

Looking forward to more tree removal and bunker work completion.

Ciao

[Robin_Hiseman]

Ally makes a good point about the left fairway bunker. You can't see it and anything falling down that camber leaves a semi-blind approach around the trees. That seems penalty enough. Ally hit a lovely 4-iron into the green, but couldn't quite turn it over enough and found the right bunker.