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Doug Wright

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Harry Collis
« on: August 20, 2002, 03:35:33 PM »
[I thought I posted this earlier but it disappeared...]

In looking at the architectural history of my club (Denver CC), I noticed that Harry Collis did quite a bit of work in 1925 that survives today (interestingly, immediately following work done by William Flynn in 1923-24!). All I've been able to glean is that he was an English gentleman. Do any of you know of Mr. Collis, his other work or his style?

Thanks,
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Twitter: @Deneuchre

wsmorrison

Re: Harry Collis
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2002, 05:33:38 PM »
Doug,

Tom Paul and I looked at the original drawings for Flynn's redesign of Denver CC.  If it was built as or nearly as drawn, it would have been a championship course with few peers.  There were clearly influences from Pine Valley as he designed many segregated fairways and island greens within sandy wastes.  The length of the holes and the demands intended were not for the average membership.

According to Chuck Bonniwell, a member who has done a great deal of research work at Denver CC, the course was simply too hard for the membership as designed by Flynn and only the general routing and 7 or 8 holes (with some of the difficulties designed by Flynn not incorporated) are all that were implemented from Flynn's 1922 plan.

Collis, perhaps Ross, and others did redesigns.  After Spear Blvd was widened in the mid-50s, the course was further altered.  

As far as Collis' other work, C+W states the following:

Harry J. Collis (1878-1937) was born in London and emigrated to America in late 1889 where he became greenkeeper at Indianapolis CC.  In 1906 he moved to Chicago to work as pro-greenkeeper at Flossmoor CC.  While there he remodeled the course into a popular tournament site, developed a turf cutter, and created a strain of bent grass named after the club.

After WWI, the work at Flossmoor resulted in other design work.  He collaborated with his friend Jack Daray, professional at nearby Olympia Fields CC and operated a turf nursery.

He struggled with the depression and eventually lost his properties to bankers and the tax men.  Flossmoor rehired him to be its greenkeeper but he died soon afterwards.

Course designs credited to him by C+W are:
Arizona:  La Palma CC, Phoenix CC, San Marcos Hotel + C
Florida:  Homosassa CC
Illinois:  Cherry Hills CC, Dundee CC, Freeport CC, Harlem Hills CC, Indian Wood G+CC, Laramie CC, Navajo Fields CC, Normandy CC, Park Forest GC, Pistakee Hills CC, Richton Park GC
Indiana:  Casa Del Mar CC, Longwood CC
Iowa:  Newton CC
Maryland:  Manor CC, US Naval Academy
Michigan:  Chickaming GC, Walled Lake CC
Mississippi:  Rainbow Bay GC

Courses remodelled include:
Colorado:  Denver CC
Illinois:  Flossmoor CC, Medinah No. #3
Michigan:  Meadowbrook CC
Wisconsin:  Rhinelander CC

As to his style, I have no idea whatsoever, perhaps those that recognize these clubs and know of his participation might shed some light on his design tendencies.  If you or other members of Denver CC know what he did there,  at Manor CC, and at the US Naval Academy I would appreciate some word on the subject as Flynn did design work at these courses too.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:08 PM by -1 »

Craig Disher

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Re: Harry Collis
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2002, 06:48:47 PM »
What is with this Collis fellow? The Denver CC story sounds very much like Manor CC's. Did Collis follow Flynn around and ease the membership's worry that their new golf course might be beyond their skill level?

Flynn did a master plan for Manor in 1926, designing 18 championship holes and a 9-hole short course. A good part of his plan was implemented, although thanks to wsmorrison's discovery of Flynn's drawings for Manor, we know that his designs were not followed precisely - the Flynn holes that we have are significantly easier than those presented in the drawings.

Sadly, Flynn's complete plan was not built. The front 9 design was abandoned after the fairways were cleared but before work began on the greens and bunkers. Harry Collis was summoned (or appeared, miraculously) and designed a replacement 9 which used Flynn's cleared fairways but in a different routing. His design - a much simpler and shorter plan - lasted about 10 years and was replaced by something a little longer, although judging from the 2 remaining Collis greens, not necessarily more difficult.

This really is an amazing coincidence. The only courses Collis worked on in Maryland, in fact, the only courses he worked on N of Florida and E of Michigan were 2 courses designed by Flynn. I'm even beginning to wonder if Collis didn't simplify some of the Flynn holes that were built at Manor. We don't have any photographs of the course between the Flynn's work in 1926/7 and Collis' work in 1929 The holes that we see in the photos from 1938 are much more friendly than the ones in Flynn's drawings.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Paul Richards

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Re: Harry Collis
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2002, 07:52:24 PM »
Harry Collis was also the grounds superintendent at Beverly CCfrom 1923-1925, much of this time is when the Donald Ross master plan was being implemented.

Also mentioned during this time is a fellow named Jack Croke.
Anyone know anything about him?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Paul Richards

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Re: Harry Collis
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2002, 04:57:17 AM »
Confirmed - Collis was BCC super from 1923-1925.


Who was Jack Croke?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Doug Wright

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Re: Harry Collis
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2002, 09:37:39 AM »
WS,

Many thanks. I haven't hooked up yet with Chuck Bonniwell, but I plan to. I'd love to get a look at those Flynn drawings--does Chuck have them? According to the Denver CC design history Chuck prepared, there's precious little of Collis left and even less Flynn. Collis is credited with the design of greens #1 and #3 and the routing of holes #2 and #3. Each of the holes is a par 4. Both greens are good but not the best on the course. #1 green has a gentle left to right slope with two very nice shelfs front left and rear. #3 green has an even more gentle back to front slope and also mild slopes away from flanking bunkers.

Alas, Flynn is credited with even less extant at Denver CC--the routing of a single hole (#4), though I suspect there may be more under the surface. I hope to find that out from Chuck.

Craig,

Very interesting indeed how Collis followed Flynn like day follows night in these instances. Coincidence, or Collis's marketing strategy?

All The Best,  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Twitter: @Deneuchre

wsmorrison

Re: Harry Collis
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2002, 02:28:12 PM »
Doug,

Chuck does indeed have copies of the Flynn drawings for Denver CC.  Be prepared to be amazed by them!  I hope that between Chuck, yourself, and other golf architecture fans at DCC you will be able to figure out the percentage of the current course that was designed by Flynn, what Flynn designs were incorporated but no longer exist, and we will then know what was never utilized.  I hope these drawings will clarify misconceptions or conjecture that seems to perpetuate at so many clubs.

I think I'll give Chuck a call and see if he's gotten anywhere in his analysis.  Best regards.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Harry Collis
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2002, 07:44:03 PM »
ANYONE EVER HEARD OF JACK CROKE?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG