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Andy Troeger

How Many Courses Are There in the Top 100?
« on: August 24, 2007, 09:13:39 PM »
Sounds like a silly question right?

Well here's the more detailed version? I'm asking it straight up just to see what kind of variety of answers I get.

I've played from the following lists:
14 of the Digest Top 100
12 of the GOLF Top 100
17 of the GolfWeek Top 100*

Total courses represented by those three lists: 22

Of those 22:
8 make all three lists
6 make 2 lists
8 only make one of the three lists.

So I ask again, if I were rating the courses I've played, how many of them should I consider "top 100" in the US? Why?

Muddling things a little bit for me is that I have four courses that I consider to be among my top 15 or so courses played that don't make ANY of the three lists in the format above. Three of those make the GolfWeek lists, just not in the top 50, and the other is brand new and will likely make the lists eventually.

Part of the reason I ask is that on two other ranking threads I debated whether I thought Crooked Stick and Arcadia Bluffs were top 100 courses. In thinking through that I arrived at this question. I then went back and counted from each list to arrive at this post.

* For GolfWeek, I took the top 50 modern and top 50 classic courses for lack of a better way to do it. GD has about a 50/50 split while GOLF leans much harder toward the classics.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2007, 09:14:49 PM by Andy Troeger »

Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How Many Courses Are There in the Top 100?
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2007, 11:00:17 PM »
Ryan,
I have not counted lately but I've played probably 300 or more courses that have at one time or another been on one of the major Top 100 lists.  Most of the major magazines suggest about 400 "possible candidates" but who knows what that number really is.  

Andy Troeger

Re:How Many Courses Are There in the Top 100?
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2007, 09:51:51 AM »
Mark,
Certainly there are a bunch. It somewhat is an "impossible" question.

I was just curious to see if I could get anyone to bite and answer the question of how many I've played (assuming something between I guess 8 and 22)!

scott_wood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How Many Courses Are There in the Top 100?
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2007, 09:04:46 PM »
Andy, since you asked....  ;D

if you ask how many courses have been on the Top 100 list for GD ( bi-annually since 1969.....i'm not counting the "Hardest 200 they did) Golf Mag ( Top USA bi-annually since 1991) AND Golfweek ( annually since 1997 for Modern and Classic) the answer is ........416.......

GD has listed 223 seperate courses, Golf 163, and Golfweek 134 for the Classic list, and 211 for the ever changing Modern...

TEPaul

Re:How Many Courses Are There in the Top 100?
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2007, 10:21:32 PM »
I've said it before, and I'll say it again---the top 100 magazine lists suck!

They are complled to sell magazines----period.

The only legitimate question is not where the golf courses of this world stand in relation to one another quality-wise but whether any golf course and its architecture is any good and why.

John Kavanaugh

Re:How Many Courses Are There in the Top 100?
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2007, 10:28:15 PM »
I've said it before, and I'll say it again---the top 100 magazine lists suck!

They are complled to sell magazines----period.



TE,

The truth of the matter is that they do not sell magazines.  I have asked for years and no one can show any proof that even in the smallest fraction that rankings sell magazines.  Do you honestly believe that they would post the results instantaneously on their web sites if they did?  

Andy Troeger

Re:How Many Courses Are There in the Top 100?
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2007, 10:57:15 PM »
Andy, since you asked....  ;D

if you ask how many courses have been on the Top 100 list for GD ( bi-annually since 1969.....i'm not counting the "Hardest 200 they did) Golf Mag ( Top USA bi-annually since 1991) AND Golfweek ( annually since 1997 for Modern and Classic) the answer is ........416.......

GD has listed 223 seperate courses, Golf 163, and Golfweek 134 for the Classic list, and 211 for the ever changing Modern...


Scott,
Thanks for that information. That really wasn't my intent, but very interesting to know that the number is that high over the years. It makes sense that GD would have a high number since its older, and also the GW Modern listing with the new courses causing change and debate. I'm a little surprised that 134 courses have been on the classic list, I wonder how many have been on there for every listing (not that I expect anyone to look that one up!)

My original premise was to try to figure out how many top 100 courses I've actually played. For example, I have Crooked Stick at #17 on my list of courses played (see all the other numbers in my original post for comparison. Seeing as GOLF especially from my understanding uses these comparisons to rate the courses, I thought it might be an interesting exercise. I'm not even sure I understand what I'm asking myself though  ;D

David Lott

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How Many Courses Are There in the Top 100?
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2007, 11:11:17 PM »
Andy, where did you get that data? Interesting. A good article could be written on what the trends have been, and why. I agree that to a considerable degree the whole exercise is there to sell magazines and promote courses. But analyzing that data could reveal something about changing tastes, fads, etc.
David Lott

Andy Troeger

Re:How Many Courses Are There in the Top 100?
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2007, 11:15:29 PM »
David,
Did you mean to ask Scott as he came up with the interesting stuff? I just counted off the current list with my own list of courses played...

I do agree it could be interesting. I've tried to compile the three lists to create one combination listing (divided into modern and classic because of GW), but its hard to figure not knowing exactly where courses not on the list would fall.

David Lott

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How Many Courses Are There in the Top 100?
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2007, 11:24:59 PM »
Yes I meant to ask Scott. (Thanks.)

Scott where did you get that info?
David Lott

TEPaul

Re:How Many Courses Are There in the Top 100?
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2007, 11:32:28 PM »
"Do you honestly believe that they would post the results instantaneously on their web sites if they did?"

Yes, John, I do. I think the golf magazines operate under P.T. Barnum's premise that a sucker is born every minute.  

John Kavanaugh

Re:How Many Courses Are There in the Top 100?
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2007, 11:46:52 PM »
"Do you honestly believe that they would post the results instantaneously on their web sites if they did?"

Yes, John, I do. I think the golf magazines operate under P.T. Barnum's premise that a sucker is born every minute.  

Problem is..The clowns are running the circus.

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How Many Courses Are There in the Top 100?
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2007, 12:40:29 AM »
What is the NYTimes best seller list for?
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How Many Courses Are There in the Top 100?
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2007, 07:06:50 AM »
All this site ever does is "rank" stuff - how good is this course compared to that one, what are the best maintenance practices, what course has the most influence on this, that or whatever,...Just look through the threads for the past few years and you will see that most of them are ranking or judging something.  When are some going to realize that the Top 100 rankings are just another example.  I would be willing to bet that almost everyone of those 416 courses that have been on someone's list are well worth seeing and playing at least once if not many times.  

TEPaul

Re:How Many Courses Are There in the Top 100?
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2007, 08:29:00 AM »
"Problem is..The clowns are running the circus."

John:

Now you're getting warmer.

And most of the criminals are on the outside running the government.

Nevertheless, you always gotta laugh.  ;)

As Mark Twain mentioned: "Nothing in the world can WITHSTAND the ONSLAUGHT of humor."

Mike_Cirba

Re:How Many Courses Are There in the Top 100?
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2007, 12:44:51 PM »
Yes I meant to ask Scott. (Thanks.)

Scott where did you get that info?

David,

Scott's either a pack rat or a savant like "rain man".   ;)

Knowing Scott, he's probably both.  ;D


Mike_Cirba

Re:How Many Courses Are There in the Top 100?
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2007, 12:46:11 PM »
Ahh...another thread for John K. to rail against ratings.

Nice to see he's spending his time productively.  ;)