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Joe Bentham

Re:Bandon Crossings is now open
« Reply #50 on: August 26, 2007, 11:23:34 AM »
How can saying Crossings isn't the best public course in Oregon count as hyperbole?  We're talking about a golf course that has been open for little over a month.  Declaring any month old golf course the best of anything is the definition of hyperbole.  Contrary to Ari's assessment about the state of public golf in Oregon, our course roster is littered with courses better then Crossings, courses in the same neighborhood as the Crossings and courses no where as good.  Your willing to take Ari's statement as fact?  That In a state of almost 4 million people, the only good golf is in the most remote part of the state?  Sorry Andy but you might need to double check your Webster's....
« Last Edit: August 26, 2007, 11:36:46 AM by Joe Bentham »

Andy Troeger

Re:Bandon Crossings is now open
« Reply #51 on: August 26, 2007, 12:28:29 PM »
Joe,
I'm not going to convince you of anything. Everyone else that has posted has appeared to be generally positive about the course and you don't give it any credit. Ari likes the course and you do not, yet you do not understand that anyone else might possibly have a valid viewpoint that is different from your own.

Agree to disagree and be over with it.

David Wigler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bandon Crossings is now open
« Reply #52 on: August 27, 2007, 12:00:24 AM »
Andy,

Joe and Ari's disagreement is for me the best of GCA, what I miss most about it and what the infrequency of (At least in my mind) has driven me away from posting regularly for more than a year now.  

Joe is passionately arguing the courses inferiority from a technical and strategic standpoint.  Ari is arguing the courses excellence from a visceral and feel standpoint.

We, the fortunate readers, can determine how important strategic options are versus visceral options.  Do we need to have inherent strategy or is a pleasing experience and the feeling that we enjoyed the round and got our moneys worth enough.  Back in the day, 70% of GCA would have read Joe's points and decided it was not worth playing and 30% would have read Ari's and decided it is well worth playing.  I do not pretend to know the spread today.  

I am off to Bandon 1 week from Friday.  The earliest tee time we could get on Friday was 2:40p, so we have some time in the morning.  I know that at least two in my group really would rather play than hit balls at the range at BD and the sheep ranch is closed.  I think i will go check out Bandon Crossing and I appreciate both Joe and Ari's defense of their points.

Thanks.
And I took full blame then, and retain such now.  My utter ignorance in not trumpeting a course I have never seen remains inexcusable.
Tom Huckaby 2/24/04

Norbert P

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bandon Crossings is now open
« Reply #53 on: August 28, 2007, 05:40:02 PM »
 I was born in Oregon so I am qualified as a certifiable expert . . . with sortie opinions that flare up beyond her borders.  I know what a geode, a pseudotsuga menziesii, and a Western Meadowlark is.  Beyond that though, I just know what I like.  

What I like about Bandon Crossings . . .

There is wind. Not the likes of Bandon at its shores but winds to keep the slicer and flopper concerned.

Its routing is on tough but golfable terrain. It is unique and appropriate for the land.  The two greens in the lowlands were the only greens needing material brought in (from the property sand quarry) that I know of.

Land cut and fill was done only where land was not golfable and within regulations of environmental agencies.

It has an open feel, even in the trees. I believe this comes from the groving of tree stands as opposed to tree-lined from end-to-end fairways.  There are inescapable dense stands but they are only on one side of a few holes, thus not trunk-space clausterphobic crushingness.
 The trees are beautiful here. And not nude-looking as most newly cleared swaths of timberland edges seem to be. Hats off to Tony Russel for his input of controlled tree removal.  The trees and shrubs are native, as well.  Madrones, silver fir, Sitka spruce, shore pines, chittum, manzanita, and more, give a full pallette of life beyond the turf.

  There is minimal mounding - the ground was already heaving with action before the machines rumbled.

  The tall grasses are active and colorful in the wind. I'm not sure what their strains are but I think there's Timothy grass (old cattle feed) in abundance.  Mowing patterns will be adjusted as future play dictates.  My "wayward" play happened to "adjust" things rather extensively, at least hypothetically. The fairways are generally wide there but there is no limit to my errantness.

 As Peter stated, the 5 par 3's are great. . .  
The 6th is a stunner to look at with a strong blend of anticipation after a long walk, (it descends from the tee), timeless bunkering, a beautiful grove of trees in the background, and a kaleidoscopic peek of the course ahead.

 The 9th is a subtle but favorite of mine that has a large bunker ahead of a semi-blind green that has a good amount of landing area behind it to allow for some suspenseful bounding to the green. The green is only visible at the left 1/4 and appears flattish from that POV but it undulates and slopes tremendously with a center ridge and fall away to middle right - right off the green.

The 11th is a Re-Dan. Let's be honest, there's only one Redan but every designer has made their own variation. This one works both visually as unique and fitting the land, and traditionally as one that favours a draw from a brow sloping to the green.

The 14th tees from a high crest to a lowland green is an interesting drop shot of considerable distance. Study the flag, the trees, the grasses because the winds can feel strong on the ridge, swirl and eddy on the way down, then calm at the green . . . or ?  

The 16th is a par three with, visually, a sliver of a green. Its very wide but not deep with a comforting backboard beyond. There are two bunkers on the left - one front, one back, so if the flag is between them, it's a sucker's gamble.
*********************************************

I especially like the entrance to most of the greens as they are equal in height or HIGHER than the green itself.  Thus we have invitations to use the land to approach greens and not the insipid raised greens that require the aerial assault. Here  there is the much sought-after and lost design of the green being an extension of the fairway. Part of this is the soil the course is on - high sand content, part of it could have been budget constraints, and surely part is the decision to give the option.  Except for #'s 4, 5, 14, and 17, I think all others allow for the ground approach if not encourage it.

  The bunkering is of highest quality and visually enticing. It is not redundant nor excessive.  It is well-considered and play-affecting. All bunkers are filled with sand from on-site. They are memorable.

  Aside from the unavoidable long walks from 5 to 6 and 14 to 15, every other hole is nicely spaced between them.  I cannot imagine it ruining a players round for this slight lapse of golf time. We walk 4 to 5 miles in a round, what's another couple hundred yards? Remember when we had to flip records over . . . it's kind of like that. You make the effort and you'll be rewarded with more music.

  The corral adds history to the land.  It beckons to be noticed and I cannot help but think of the lives of bygone ranchers, timbermen and their families.

  There's plenty to like at Bandon Crossings and curiosity alone should lure the adventurous to swing the sticks, but the words of others won't bring anybody back.  It has to speak for itself. If its message reaches you as truthful, then the story it tells becomes worthy of retelling.



 
"Son. Don't ever ask a man where he's from.  If he's from Oregon, he'll tell ya. If he ain't, don't embarrass him."  UNK



 

9th hole  Par 3

Milo the dog keeping the pace of play going. Heck, he's walked this courses 100's of times with 6 inch legs. What a stud.

BTW... No flagsticks were placed yet when I played. So, though most of green is blind, you will see flag when you play.  Sort of like the white rock at "The Dell".

 
« Last Edit: August 28, 2007, 07:08:31 PM by Slag Bandoon »
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

Norbert P

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bandon Crossings is now open
« Reply #54 on: August 29, 2007, 01:41:22 PM »


6th Hole Par 3        sans Milo
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bandon Crossings is now open
« Reply #55 on: August 29, 2007, 06:55:58 PM »
...Again I have played all the courses you list except Quail Valley...

Don't worry about that one Ari. That is where he lost credibility with me.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Chris Kurzner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bandon Crossings is now open
« Reply #56 on: August 30, 2007, 11:44:01 AM »
Joe,

We are on for November 2-4.  I'll put in a request at the caddy shop for you.

If we end up being short a player for any of our rounds, would you be interested in playing with us instead of just lugging my bag and hearing me bitch about how I can't understand why I'm not playing as good as I pretend to be?

Norbert P

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bandon Crossings is now open
« Reply #57 on: August 30, 2007, 12:18:01 PM »


Par 5 13th fw from tees.  Green in distance at far right.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2007, 12:23:17 PM by Slag Bandoon »
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

Norbert P

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bandon Crossings is now open
« Reply #58 on: August 31, 2007, 11:25:18 AM »


 Par 5 5th fairway bunker (unfinished at the time) and the corral.        

We played to the alternate green just beyond the corral and I short-sticked my golf ball into its tall grass -- trapped and slaughtered.
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

Norbert P

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bandon Crossings is now open
« Reply #59 on: August 31, 2007, 12:26:05 PM »


4th from tees.  Par 5.  Tee faces NE, doglegs N with approach to green NNW.


"Jack* will these changing times
Motorways, powerlines
Keep us apart?

Well, I don't think so,
I saw some grass growing through the pavement today."  IA

(*Jack(s) In the Green - the mythical sprites who makes all things grow.)
« Last Edit: August 31, 2007, 12:29:15 PM by Slag Bandoon »
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bandon Crossings is now open
« Reply #60 on: August 31, 2007, 02:12:58 PM »
This is the first I've read this thread, so... some thoughts or add-ons to previous comments...

JK, frankly, if one had an extra half day while at BallyNeal, I'd recommend about 1.25 hour trip to Bayside, just to experience one other regional sort of course.  You can't go wrong for the price and the extra 3 hours travel time, IMHO.  Wild Horse is further and would be better paired with SH for a diversion.

As for why play Bandon Crossing, here is a common man's answer...

I'd play it for spite and reactionary comment to the prices BR charges in a shoulder season.   If Crossings was open on our recent one and only tour of that PacNorwest area in April, I would have driven right over for a round at Crossings after finding that even though all tees were open at 3Pm at BR, no price break from $200 a round on any of them was available for a twilight round alone.  And, when trying a month in advance for a play and stay package, 1300 for two nights and 3 rounds was the best I could do, because Lily Pond wasn't open.  The factor that the fees are cheaper in winter don't help a person that is on a tour to enjoy the beauty of that area, as I doubt many tourists go to enjoy that area in winter weather.  Who wants to be an Oregon Coast tourist in brutal weather?  

I'd play Crossing for the mere reason I am stunned to hear Ari state it is 'better than Wild Horse"!!!  That I gotta see.  :o :o :o  I'd play it because two guys I have great respect for in their GCA tastes, Mike and Slag, give it thumbs up.  

Call me a cheap bastard if you like.  BR won't miss my 200  a round or overly priced lodging in shoulder season.  But, I know they are great courses, undisputed, but real people do draw lines on prices and make compromises.  BR is a rich man's elete dalliance... IMHO.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Norbert P

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bandon Crossings is now open
« Reply #61 on: August 31, 2007, 02:47:24 PM »

 Who wants to be an Oregon Coast tourist in brutal weather?  

I'd play Crossing for the mere reason I am stunned to hear Ari state it is 'better than Wild Horse"!!!  

 Many people go there in the winter to hang out in the storms. Also, the weather can be very mild there in the winter . . . I've played Pac Dunes in calm 60 degree sunny weather in January.

 I'm pretty sure Ari was speaking of Wildhorse, just outside of Pendleton "Round Up" , Oregon).  
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bandon Crossings is now open
« Reply #62 on: August 31, 2007, 02:48:14 PM »
Oh RJ, I love the way you speak!
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bandon Crossings is now open
« Reply #63 on: August 31, 2007, 02:52:36 PM »
...Who wants to be an Oregon Coast tourist in brutal weather?  
...

Oregonians, that's who!
When the weather gets bad they go to the coast.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bandon Crossings is now open
« Reply #64 on: August 31, 2007, 02:53:39 PM »
Yeah Norby, but anytime weather there is variable enough.  Who is going to pre-plan a week touring out there in winter on odd chance of catching that one mild day.  Unless they are into that whole "world's most dangerous catch - ice trucker" sort of activity!   ;) ;D 8)
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bandon Crossings is now open
« Reply #65 on: August 31, 2007, 02:56:10 PM »
...
 I'm pretty sure Ari was speaking of Wildhorse, just outside of Pendleton "Round Up" , Oregon).  

I'm certain he was speaking of Wildhorse outside of Pendleton.

Have to remember Wildhorse is a pretty common name for golf courses before jumping to conclusions. E.g.,
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=26316

"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bandon Crossings is now open
« Reply #66 on: August 31, 2007, 02:56:28 PM »
Garland, maybe the History Channel's next feature series ought to be, January Oregon Coast Haystack Climbers...  ::) ;) ;D
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Ari Techner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bandon Crossings is now open
« Reply #67 on: September 01, 2007, 08:32:08 AM »
RJ,

I was speaking of the Oregon Wildhorse outside Pendleton.  

Bandon Crossings is not better than the Nebraska Wild Horse.  

Norbert P

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bandon Crossings is now open
« Reply #68 on: September 19, 2007, 02:41:00 AM »
 
17th Par 3
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bandon Crossings is now open
« Reply #69 on: September 19, 2007, 11:47:32 AM »
Norby, is that the general LOP from tee to green?  How far of a shot is it?  Do you find that the snag is additive or detractive?
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Norbert P

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bandon Crossings is now open
« Reply #70 on: September 19, 2007, 12:26:57 PM »
Norby, is that the general LOP from tee to green?  How far of a shot is it?  Do you find that the snag is additive or detractive?

Yes, I used a LOP Wedge to the left of the greeeeen.
I think it plays from 100ish to 180ish. The Forward Tee is actually way up to the right for more of a diagonal shot to the green.

The snag is not really in play for the ball, just the eyes and mind. One would have to skull it to hit it, methinks.

The green is deceptively shallow but is wider than deep.

LOP = Line of perspective ?
         line of play ?
         liver n' onions plate ?
         lolium over pasture ?
         
         
           
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bandon Crossings is now open
« Reply #71 on: September 19, 2007, 12:36:37 PM »
I'll take LOP for 100 Alex... ::)
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Norbert P

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bandon Crossings is now open
« Reply #72 on: September 19, 2007, 12:46:02 PM »
I'll take LOP for 100 Alex... ::)


Laughing Out Phonetically
 
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

Scott Weersing

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bandon Crossings is now open
« Reply #73 on: September 20, 2007, 07:49:03 PM »


4th from tees.  Par 5.  Tee faces NE, doglegs N with approach to green NNW.


"Jack* will these changing times
Motorways, powerlines
Keep us apart?

Well, I don't think so,
I saw some grass growing through the pavement today."  IA

(*Jack(s) In the Green - the mythical sprites who makes all things grow.)

Are the powerlines in view on any other holes than this one?

I wonder which course I should play in 2008, Bandon Crossings or Sandpines?

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bandon Crossings is now open
« Reply #74 on: September 20, 2007, 07:59:17 PM »
Scott - I've played Sandpines but not Bandon Crossings...but based on the pictures if I were you i would most definitely play the latter
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!