Removing a club from your bag

[Tom Huckaby]

shivas:

I agree with that for the most part.  But by "play like me" I mean shortish off the tee and not overly struggling with putting.  I sincerely believe that describes a lot of golfers.

But anyway that's a side point. My overall take remains.

I do still believe your fundamental flaw is the assumption that a large percentage of golfers (notice I didn't say "all"?) would be signifcantly better with the long putter... I've seen plenty who suck with it.  

And even IF we grant that this is true, then the set of golfers who could afford to delete another club in favor of adding back the small putter is also quite small.

Or at least I think so.

TH

[Tom Huckaby]

You accept a lot of hate, given the way you keep hating to break things to me and yet still do it.  Fine. I'm huge off the tee.

But perhaps you could address the main point this time?  
Or can I take by your consistent attacking of side issues and failure to address the main one that you accept my reasoning?

I'll give you another chance:

My overall take remains.

I do still believe your fundamental flaw is the assumption that a large percentage of golfers (notice I didn't say "all"?) would be signifcantly better with the long putter... I've seen plenty who suck with it.  

And even IF we grant that this is true, then the set of golfers who could afford to delete another club in favor of adding back the small putter is also quite small.

Or at least I think so.

[Jerry Kluger]

Huck: I've always felt that putting is the greatest variable in the game.  Every putt is different and the player has to adjust and adapt for every putt he faces.  This can vary from the beginning of a round to the end of the round.  No doubt it varies with the length of the putt and the amount of break in the putt.  The shorter putts are the most difficult because you know that you should make them - longer putts are either lags or simply a bonus if you happen to make one.  Look at Vijay, he not only changes putters but changes putting strokes as well - you might change strokes from one day to another simply because you are more confident with one versus the other.  There ain't no logic to it other than getting it into the hole.

[Craig Van Egmond]

Aw Huckster,

         I have never understood this lament of yours about being shortish off the tee.. do you play with guys that regularly out drive you?  Are they pros?  is this some sort of gamesmanship? While you are not HUGE off the tee, you certainly do hit the ball a long ways, I for one would be thrilled to drive the ball as well as you.

        I pray that you never suffer from poor putting, it is a horrible thing.

[Tom Huckaby]

Jerry:

I agree completely with all of that.

Thus to me it's folly to say ANY one system is a panacea for most golfers... which try as he might to deny it now, is what my friend shivas has maintained.

If he'd just leave it at "it can help some people" we'd have no issues.  But hell one can say that about whittling down a tree branch and putting with that.

TH

[Tom Huckaby]

Aw Huckster,

         I have never understood this lament of yours about being shortish off the tee.. do you play with guys that regularly out drive you?  Are they pros?  is this some sort of gamesmanship? While you are not HUGE off the tee, you certainly do hit the ball a long ways, I for one would be thrilled to drive the ball as well as you.

        I pray that you never suffer from poor putting, it is a horrible thing.

Craig:  it's not a lament, it's a reality - most people I play with do hit the ball farther than I do - and I sure as hell don't play with pros, or really that many good golfers.  Even the high cappers get it past me when they catch it.  Now admittedly they don't catch it often, so I guess I am consistently longer... but let's just say I play with VERY VERY few single digit handicappers that aren't consistently longer than me.  For a 3-5 handicapper (which I am), I am pretty short off the tee.  

Not that this matters one single bit in this conversation - so thanks for giving shivas more room for side-tracking tap-dancing - but it is the truth.

As for suffering from poor putting, oh I do empathize and sympathize - my shit here extends only to shivas, and only for purposes of this argument.

TH

ps - you played 36 holes with me what, 8 years ago?  Maybe I was hitting it long that day... I guess I must have impressed you... and shivas too, who I haven't played with in several years either.  Funny how you guys know my game so much better than I do.  

[Phil Benedict]

Tom,

Do you or do you not agree that the long putter and the belly putter take the handyness out of the strokes of people who are handsy?

I feel like we are getting close to the Perry Mason moment when Huckaby breaks down on the witness stand.

[Tom Huckaby]

Tom,

Do you or do you not agree that the long putter and the belly putter take the handyness out of the strokes of people who are handsy?

For some such will, for some they won't.  Putting's a very weird activity, so wrapped up in confidence and psychological issues.  Heck, handsy strokes might be the best way to putt for a lot of people also, so it's also not fair to assume that non-handsy stroke is absolutely better.

I've referred you to it before, but you really ought to read Stan Utley's book "The Art of Putting."  It certainly contradicts a lot of what you assume to be fundamental.

And I only say that as a means of hopefully ending this.  My friend, I really don't think there's any one way to attack putting.  The two putter way may well be an improvement for some golfers.  If we can just leave it at that, we have no issue.

TH

[Tom Huckaby]

Tom,

Do you or do you not agree that the long putter and the belly putter take the handyness out of the strokes of people who are handsy?

I feel like we are getting close to the Perry Mason moment when Huckaby breaks down on the witness stand.

Please Phil - did you not read the 14 page ethics/sportsmanship thread?  I've never been so insulted.  I took on at least 5 at a time there.  Shivas alone has MILES to go before he breaks me.

I never get broken, but I do get tired.  I'm there now re this issue.

 

[Tom Huckaby]

I answered your question.

For some it will, for some it won't.  If you saw the guy I waxed 6&5 putt with that thing, you wouldn't be saying the long putter takes handsyness out of the stroke.  

And I'm not allowed to comment on the relevance of the question?

Wow, you must really think I am on the stand.

 

[Craig Van Egmond]

Thomas,

      You shot like a 78 from the back tees at Bayonet that day... that's pretty impressive in my book.  

      I've been fortunate to see you play again at KP I and somewhere else that I can't recall right now.

      I still say that most golfers would be thrilled to hit the ball as long and straight as you do. So there!  

      I have been lucky enough to play with quite a few GCA members over the years and there has only been 1 low handicapper that I thought was really short off the tee and you ain't it.

[Jerry Kluger]

Rather than using two putters perhaps two different grips would do the trick - conventional grip on long putts and left hand low on short putts.  Could also use a split grip or grip way down on short putts.  Point is that the lack of confidence in the conventional grip could be the culprit and any change, whether it is grip or putter, could do the trick.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Rather than using two putters perhaps two different grips would do the trick - conventional grip on long putts and left hand low on short putts.  

I tried that and had some early success.

My problem is with the short, not the long putts.[/color]

Could also use a split grip or grip way down on short putts.  Point is that the lack of confidence in the conventional grip could be the culprit and any change, whether it is grip or putter, could do the trick.  

I've tried cross-handed in close, regular long, and had some early success with that.

I'm not a rookie when it comes to experimentation. [/color]

[Patrick Kiser]

Been playing with an odd set myself for 5+ years without any problems.

Did this on purpose to develop feel more.

Setup with LW, SW, GP, 9i, 7i, 5i, 2 1/2i, 7W, 5W, 3W, Driver and putter.

So 12 in all.

I often leave my 7W at home now.  Was being used as my "get out of jail" club.  Been able to dial in a softer 3W (not 5W).

The 5W is only used on long par 3's in the 210-220 range.  So rarely used.

The 2 1/2i is my driver on those windy days when I need to keep it down.

Interestingly the LW isn't getting much play.

I might experiment leaving the 7W and LW at home and see what happens.

One club I wish I had was a 6i.  I often find myself having a tougher time dialing in a soft enough 5i or hard enough 7i.