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John Kavanaugh

Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2007, 09:47:45 AM »
A dirty little secret...I log on to http://www.geoffshackelford.com/ every work day since it is the third bookmark on my computer.  I don't get his method of finding articles...does he read every mag and site in the world or does he have some bizzaro network of friends or search engine.  I believe that he is the consumate golf fan reporter.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2007, 09:48:03 AM by John Kavanaugh »

Michael Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2007, 11:07:22 AM »
1. John Kavanaugh - By far and away our funniest and most poetic contributor. Dives deeper into the human side of golf than anyone. I don't expect 1500 strangers to let it all hang out regarding alcohol, sex, marriage and religion, but John does it with a sledgehammer in one hand and a razor in the other. Truly profound, except when drunk, trying too hard, or posting from a mobile device.

2. Tom Paul - Some with thousands of posts use this board to chat with their pals or to repeat the same things over and over again. This is not the case with Tom. Nobody has more stories, and nobody has more that are good, that shed light on society and manners through the prism of golf. Most importantly, Tom rarely tells stories in which he is the protagonist, and this humility lends a tremendous scope and authority to his narrative. Our keenest observer, by a wide margin.

3. Ran Morrissett - Describes a course better than anyone. Manages to cram the yardage, strategies, aesthetics, routing context, and construction history of a hole into one elegant paragraph. Through his liberal use of flowery prose, paved the way for pretentious imitators such as myself.

4.David Schmidt - I greatly enjoy his breakdowns as he is the fairest and most thorough of the debate addicts. Always eager to get to the bottom  of something. He also marries this lawyerism very nicely with a robust portfolio of "there I was" regular-guy golf stories. Sometimes too chatty and faux-stubborn. Probably the GCAer I would most like to go out drinkin' with.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2007, 11:09:36 AM by Michael Moore »
Metaphor is social and shares the table with the objects it intertwines and the attitudes it reconciles. Opinion, like the Michelin inspector, dines alone. - Adam Gopnik, The Table Comes First

Peter Pallotta

Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2007, 11:53:59 AM »
Michael Moore – nicely done.

I agree with all your choices.  It’s neat that you picked writers of such differing styles; what they have in common is that they’re all excellent communicators.  I’d add:

Tom Doak: set aside the knowledge and experience he brings to the table and you still have a writer of striking clarity and simplicity.

Bob Crosby: it’s a pleasure to read someone who obviously gets so much pleasure from using the language absolutely properly, but never pedantically.

Dan Kelly: no one else writes with such precision. I think his refusal to take the easy road offered by emoticons sharpens his thoughts (and wit) very nicely.

Philip Young: a true professional.

SL Solow: a very fine mind, and with the writing skills to communicate the complexity and nuance of his thoughts very directly.  

RJ Daley: he can go uptown or downtown, high-brow and low, with equal facility.

Wayne Morrison: there’s rarely a word wasted or thrown away, or an unnecessary thought, and he always manages to marshal (and tailor) his expertise to fit whatever the topic at hand.

Jeff Brauer: with such a deep understanding of all the aspects of gca, he still somehow manages to share and explain technical information like USGA greens in language that any layman can understand.

There are others. It’s one of the main reasons I stop in every day: the writing is better than I can read most anyplace else.

Peter

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2007, 12:49:59 PM »
Sorry gents, but I can’t see the use in playing this writer-rater game.  It is as futile as ranking courses.  You have rankings of your classics, modern, world, private, public, resort courses, justaposed with your sentimental, technical, humorous, argumentative, grammaticarian, prolific, economical, writers.  

I know some posters here fancy themselves good to great writers… and they are.  But, ranking them is a divisive exercise that is a superficial beauty contest at best, and a kissy ass session at worst.  Feelings might get hurt unnecessarily due to intended or unintended omissions or specific identification.  

Peter, the only one I can comment on with some confidence is yours truly.  Thanks for your compliment, but I know which side of the tracks in Writertown I belong on… that would be patroling the writer’s beat on skid row,  strolling while twirling my grammarical nightstick…

... with about as much precision as a Chicago Policeman wielding his truncheon on the night of August 27th, 1968 on Michigan Avenue...

EDIT: above added for the enjoyment of unnamed GCA writer/blogger who seems to specialize in analogies...  ;) ;D ::) 8)
« Last Edit: August 23, 2007, 01:18:47 PM by RJ_Daley »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Tom Huckaby

Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2007, 12:52:06 PM »
Dick - that makes darn good sense.  Off to delete my posts....

TH

paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2007, 01:00:01 PM »
Peter....you are no slouch....nor is Adam Foster Collins.

Its really pleasing to read this generally complimentary exchange.

Maybe we ought to expand the Rankings to;

Top 50 Modern
Top 50 Classic

Think about that ;).
« Last Edit: August 23, 2007, 01:09:23 PM by paul cowley »
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #31 on: August 23, 2007, 01:32:35 PM »
Paul,

Let's add one more category, just so you and I have a list to be on:

Top 50 Goofball

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #32 on: August 23, 2007, 01:36:36 PM »
Paul,

Let's add one more category, just so you and I have a list to be on:

Top 50 Goofball

Joe
Ah, Joe - you sure you want that category?

Ciao

Sean,

I'm a proud, confident man..... ;D

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Doug Ralston

Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #33 on: August 23, 2007, 01:47:21 PM »
To be fair: I couldn't get more than a '9' because my spelling is atrocious!  ::)

Doug

Brad Swanson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #34 on: August 23, 2007, 01:55:22 PM »
Why the hell are the discussion group members compelled to rank everything for Pete's sake?  Does everyone have their top 10 pairs of shoes ranked too (2 lists of course, casual and dress)?  What about family members (classic and modern)?  When will the anal retentive madness end?

Cheers,
Brad      

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #35 on: August 23, 2007, 01:57:57 PM »
I'm surprised to see Barney get so many mentions - occasionally funny, rarely informative. I guess I can understand now why so many lousy yet controversial sportswriters make it big.

Aside from some of the obvious professionals - but certainly not all of them - the only real can't-miss posts for me are by the architects and greenkeepers. And I mean all of them. They exude a depth of quality that makes the rest of us seem sadly shallow by comparison.

I also enjoy the unique perspectives offered by our overseas posters, and our friends up north as well.

And, of course, Slag.

I'm sure I'll think of someone else later.

EDIT: And there's one posting just ahead of me. I'll trade all of Barney's posts for pretty much any one of Brad's. He actually comments on architecture, not merely the other posters.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2007, 05:17:16 PM by George Pazin »
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Peter Pallotta

Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #36 on: August 23, 2007, 02:00:29 PM »
Paul,
Let's add one more category, just so you and I have a list to be on:
Top 50 Goofball

Joe
Ah, Joe - you sure you want that category?

Ciao

Sean,
I'm a proud, confident man..... ;D

Joe

As you should be, Joe, as you should be.

You're the Pine Valley of this category, the perennial No. 1 in the world, by a wide margin.   ;D


Doug Ralston

Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #37 on: August 23, 2007, 02:04:35 PM »
Why the hell are the discussion group members compelled to rank everything for Pete's sake?  Does everyone have their top 10 pairs of shoes ranked too (2 lists of course, casual and dress)?  What about family members (classic and modern)?  When will the anal retentive madness end?

Cheers,
Brad      

Brad;

Welcome to GCA Mutual Admiration Society. Lots of this type of thread. Lets 'The Clique' tell each other how wonderful.  LOL. One of the advantages of having few friends is not having to search for opportunities to foment acceptability.

Doug

PS: It's really OK. I actually like this kind of thread, because I am truly brutal by nature and will always laugh really hard.  :D

Glenn Spencer

Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #38 on: August 23, 2007, 02:23:00 PM »
I think Brent Hutto deserves some mention. I like his work.

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #39 on: August 23, 2007, 03:10:07 PM »
Its really pleasing to read this generally complimentary exchange.

Maybe we ought to expand the Rankings to;

Top 50 Modern
Top 50 Classic

Think about that ;).

Which category would you put Tom Paul in?

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #40 on: August 23, 2007, 03:34:43 PM »
Why the hell are the discussion group members compelled to rank everything for Pete's sake?  Does everyone have their top 10 pairs of shoes ranked too (2 lists of course, casual and dress)?  What about family members (classic and modern)?  When will the anal retentive madness end?

Cheers,
Brad      

Brad;

Welcome to GCA Mutual Admiration Society. Lots of this type of thread. Lets 'The Clique' tell each other how wonderful.  LOL. One of the advantages of having few friends is not having to search for opportunities to foment acceptability.

Doug

PS: It's really OK. I actually like this kind of thread, because I am truly brutal by nature and will always laugh really hard.  :D

The GCAMAS is just an affiliate of the GCAJTWCS (GCA Jumping to Wrong Conclusions Society) But, no worry, everyone here is a member of at least one of these organizations.

 ;D
« Last Edit: August 23, 2007, 04:25:54 PM by Joe Hancock »
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #41 on: August 23, 2007, 04:16:50 PM »
Are you telling me that our Minni tag team never influenced an article in their local paper?  

John --

I must be away for most of the day, but before I go:

I have had absolutely nothing to do with my paper's coverage of golf, ever.

Period.

Rick sometimes wrote about golf. I believe he mentioned Jeff's name in a review of The Quarry and/or of The Wilderness at Fortune Bay.

Why wouldn't he have mentioned the architect? He was a newspaperman, and those were newsworthy courses -- unquestionably two of the best courses built in Minnesota in many years.

I'll check the facts when I return.

Dan

3:15 p.m.: Rick mentioned Jeff Brauer in our pages twice -- in a 2003 review of The Quarry at Giants Ridge, and in a 2004 review of The Wilderness at Fortune Bay.

Maybe I should do a search for "Keffrey Bauer," just in case.

« Last Edit: August 23, 2007, 04:32:57 PM by Dan Kelly™ »
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #42 on: August 23, 2007, 05:06:10 PM »
 8)

Most Influential - John Kavanaugh
Most Obtuse - John Kavanaugh
Most Interesting - Tuco
Most Obtrusive - Sarge
Most Diffuse - TEP
Most Acutely On Point when BOLDLY Green - Pat Mucci
« Last Edit: August 23, 2007, 05:08:10 PM by Steve Lang »
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

John Kavanaugh

Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #43 on: August 23, 2007, 05:20:30 PM »
Are you telling me that our Minni tag team never influenced an article in their local paper?  

John --

I must be away for most of the day, but before I go:

I have had absolutely nothing to do with my paper's coverage of golf, ever.

Period.

Rick sometimes wrote about golf. I believe he mentioned Jeff's name in a review of The Quarry and/or of The Wilderness at Fortune Bay.

Why wouldn't he have mentioned the architect? He was a newspaperman, and those were newsworthy courses -- unquestionably two of the best courses built in Minnesota in many years.

I'll check the facts when I return.

Dan

3:15 p.m.: Rick mentioned Jeff Brauer in our pages twice -- in a 2003 review of The Quarry at Giants Ridge, and in a 2004 review of The Wilderness at Fortune Bay.

Maybe I should do a search for "Keffrey Bauer," just in case.



Thanks...I went to your archive search feature and they wanted to charge me to see the full articles.  I was curious, when the golf writer for your paper writes an article about something that interests you do you cubical up and give some imput?  Do you ever give him heads up on new courses that may interest his readers?  It just seems natural given how you and Rick love the game.

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #44 on: August 23, 2007, 05:29:34 PM »
To begin with, John, I wasn't the golf writer at the Pioneer Press. I was a feature writer who did outdoor stories in the summer, and I managed to stretch the definition to include a weekly public golf course review for a few summers. During that time, The Quarry and The Wilderness both opened, and I put both of them on my schedule of courses to see and write about. I don't recall whether Dan knew about either course before I did, but they were no secret in Minnesota, and it would have been incredibly obtuse NOT to write about either one, given the chance.

Dan and I often talked about new golf courses when I was at the Pioneer Press, and those talks no doubt had some affect on which courses I decided to write about -- just as reading GCA did, or the Enemy Paper, or Minnesota Golfer, or any other source of golf course news.

I was reassigned in 2004, and didn't write about golf courses after that. I left the Pioneer Press in 2006. That pretty much exhausts the subject.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2007, 05:30:19 PM by Rick Shefchik »
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

John Kavanaugh

Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #45 on: August 23, 2007, 05:45:44 PM »
To begin with, John, I wasn't the golf writer at the Pioneer Press. I was a feature writer who did outdoor stories in the summer, and I managed to stretch the definition to include a weekly public golf course review for a few summers. During that time, The Quarry and The Wilderness both opened, and I put both of them on my schedule of courses to see and write about. I don't recall whether Dan knew about either course before I did, but they were no secret in Minnesota, and it would have been incredibly obtuse NOT to write about either one, given the chance.

Dan and I often talked about new golf courses when I was at the Pioneer Press, and those talks no doubt had some affect on which courses I decided to write about -- just as reading GCA did, or the Enemy Paper, or Minnesota Golfer, or any other source of golf course news.

I was reassigned in 2004, and didn't write about golf courses after that. I left the Pioneer Press in 2006. That pretty much exhausts the subject.

Rick,

Please understand that being someone born in 1960 I was an avid TV watcher during the golden age of newspaper drama's and sit com's..It's fun to speculate about the going ons behind the scenes.  I can't even think of a decent newspaper show on now.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2007, 05:46:19 PM by John Kavanaugh »

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #46 on: August 23, 2007, 06:15:32 PM »
This thread provides the absolute, unadulterated, irrefutable evidence GCA has finally "jumped the shark."


No more needed :'(
« Last Edit: August 23, 2007, 06:15:52 PM by Steve Lapper »
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #47 on: August 23, 2007, 07:11:25 PM »

john_stiles

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #48 on: August 23, 2007, 10:41:28 PM »
everyone is okay......NEXT !

David Lott

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #49 on: August 24, 2007, 12:01:20 AM »
Best Greenskeeper Writer:

"It was the best of tines, it was the worst of tines."

David Lott