News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« on: August 22, 2007, 11:39:56 PM »
....this poor writing pilgrim has come along mightily when compared to the primitive who joined this site a few years back.....a 50 year old who had never typed or used a computer.

I could read though, and glean texts...an essential requirement of the self taught.......and from my first exposure to this site it was immediatly apparent there were some very talented writers lurking here..... and who comprise the mainstay of this site.

So.....why not rank them. ;D

Give us a listing of your top 10 members here who have the best ability to communicate with the written word.

They can be ranked by ability from 1 to 10...or just a group of 10.............I'll go last.

 
« Last Edit: August 24, 2007, 11:43:28 PM by paul cowley »
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2007, 11:44:26 PM »
Hey, I'll try for the worst writing award:

It was the best of nines, it was the worst of nines.......

Of all the golf joints in the world to play you had to pick this one.....

Frankly my dear, I can't get a par......

How about bad acronyms? Classics Restored and Purified (CRAP)

I'll have to brush up on my limerick skills to make the bottom ten list.......There once was a golfer from.....

« Last Edit: August 22, 2007, 11:57:26 PM by Jeff_Brauer »
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2007, 11:55:43 PM »
....that's very creative Jeff....especially considering that you are probably up past your bedtime :).....but this thread is not asking for auditions or examples of writing.... instead it is seeking to rank and recognise those participants here who have talent with getting out the word.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2007, 11:58:01 PM by paul cowley »
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2007, 11:59:35 PM »
Paul,

Wouldn't we first have to have a 463 post thread debating the merits of various writers ranking systems?

Whatever you come up with, I think you need to replace the "Walk in the Park" test with the "Sits in the bathroom" test.....
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2007, 12:05:42 AM »
Paul,

Wouldn't we first have to have a 463 post thread debating the merits of various writers ranking systems?

Whatever you come up with, I think you need to replace the "Walk in the Park" test with the "Sits in the bathroom" test.....

....now Jeff....that is good ;D.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2007, 05:41:09 AM by paul cowley »
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

David_Elvins

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2007, 03:17:59 AM »
Paul,

Wouldn't we first have to have a 463 post thread debating the merits of various writers ranking systems?
I prefer th Doak Scale:
1. A very basic writer, with poor architectural understanding and poor spelling. Avoid even if you’re desperate.

2. A mediocre poster with little or no architectural interest, but nothing really horrible.

3. About the level of the poster on the internet. (Since I don’t go out of my way to read bombsquadgolf  my scale is deliberately skewed to split hairs among the good, the better and the best.)

4. A modestly interesting poster, with a couple of distinctive points made every now and again, or at least posts nice pictures. Also reserved for some very good posters who's knowledge is too narrow to provide sufficient interest for well travelled readers.

5. Well above the average poster, but the middle of my scale. A good poster to read if you are already reading the thread but don’t bother opening a thread to see what they have written.

6. A very good writer, definitely worth a read if you’re in the can, but not necessarily worth a special time to read. It shouldn’t disappoint you.

7. An excellent writer, worth checking out if you are on the internet. You can expect to find soundly though out, interesting ideas, good writing style and the occasional picture, if not necessarily anything unique to the world of architecture.

8. One of the very best writers on GolfClubAtlas and worth logging on to the internet to read. Could have some drawbacks, but these will clearly be spelled out, and it will make up for them with something really special in addition to the generally excellent writing.

9. An outstanding writer—certainly one of the best in the world—with no weaknesses in regard to style, length or poor sentences. You should read his posts once in your life.

10. Nearly perfect; if you skipped even one of his posts, you would miss something worth reading. If you haven’t read all of his posts  you don’t know how good golf architecture can get. use the search function—immediately.

Ask not what GolfClubAtlas can do for you; ask what you can do for GolfClubAtlas.

paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2007, 05:38:37 AM »
Excellent David!  ;D ;D ;D

Your last post is a definite 8 if I were to create a post ranking scale.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2007, 05:44:24 AM by paul cowley »
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2007, 08:39:40 AM »
We could amend No. 9 for the TEPaul Scale as such:

9. An outstanding writer—certainly one of the best in the world—with no weaknesses in regard to style or poor sentences. You should read his posts once in your life, and frankly, it will take the rest of your life.

Paul, to give you the first serious answer, I would have to nominate our professional writers, like:

Brad Klein
Dan Kelly
Rick Sheflick
Jay Flemma
Tom Doak (he's a semi pro now, but if you read his stuff on golf design, its really good, and tight writing.  

I guess Forrest and Mark Fine are also semi-pro writers (how many books do you need to write to become a pro? I still think of Forrest as a gca first, with writing as a hobby.....)  And I am sorry if I left a writer off the list.  (I left Geoff S off because he rarely posts anymore)

As to the rest of us?  None stand out, but they may be because  the general level of intelligence shown on this board is probably far and away better than the typical discussion board and the competition is so great.

PS- As Dan or Brad once said, we all could stand to edit our posts.....someone else suggested writing it in word and then pasting into gca so we can correct those little grammar errors that can be so irritating to read, esp. to the poster, who undoubtedly sees it once posted for the real world!  I think we are all willing to overlook small errors - on gca.com post content is king!

« Last Edit: August 23, 2007, 08:40:46 AM by Jeff_Brauer »
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Kyle Harris

Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2007, 08:40:59 AM »
Jeff,

You could just download Firefox and use the built in grammar and spelling editors.  ;)

John Kavanaugh

Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2007, 08:44:24 AM »
We could amend No. 9 for the TEPaul Scale as such:

9. An outstanding writer—certainly one of the best in the world—with no weaknesses in regard to style or poor sentences. You should read his posts once in your life, and frankly, it will take the rest of your life.

Paul, to give you the first serious answer, I would have to nominate our professional writers, like:

Brad Klein
Dan Kelly
Rick Sheflick
Jay Flemma
Tom Doak (he's a semi pro now, but if you read his stuff on golf design, its really good, and tight writing.  

I guess Forrest and Mark Fine are also semi-pro writers (how many books do you need to write to become a pro? I still think of Forrest as a gca first, with writing as a hobby.....)  And I am sorry if I left a writer off the list.  (I left Geoff S off because he rarely posts anymore)

As to the rest of us?  None stand out, but they may be because  the general level of intelligence shown on this board is probably far and away better than the typical discussion board and the competition is so great.

PS- As Dan or Brad once said, we all could stand to edit our posts.....someone else suggested writing it in word and then pasting into gca so we can correct those little grammar errors that can be so irritating to read, esp. to the poster, who undoubtedly sees it once posted for the real world!  I think we are all willing to overlook small errors - on gca.com post content is king!



Enough of this...I would challenge each of the above to a writing battle royale.  I have never seen a professional golf writer who doesn't waste space.  Name a topic, give us twenty words and see who is left in the ring.  Why do you think people like you come here everyday to read opinions from people like me...cause they are honest, short and unedited.  What do you do first on magazine come day, go to your box or log on to GCA?  This is the format for the modern mind.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2007, 08:47:59 AM by John Kavanaugh »

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2007, 08:53:46 AM »
...
Brad Klein
Dan Kelly
Rick Sheflick
...

As Dan or Brad once said, we all could stand to edit our posts.

I don't believe Brad or I ever said that.

I think it was Rick Shefchik.

(Emoticons omitted.)
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2007, 08:55:47 AM »
John,

Are you proposing a Fed Ex Cup of writing?  What if our top writer refuses to compete?

Dan,

My apologies to Rick but his name doesn't show up in Word, Firefox or anything else. It may, when his book becomes a worldwide best seller!

BTW, if memory serves, I think it was Brad who suggested editing.  You at one time posted a nice piece on use of parentheticals (for my benefit) that was useful......
« Last Edit: August 23, 2007, 08:57:53 AM by Jeff_Brauer »
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

John Kavanaugh

Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2007, 08:58:06 AM »
John,

Are you proposing a Fed Ex Cup of writing?  What if our top writer refuses to compete?

No problem, I'm in.

Kyle Harris

Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2007, 08:59:35 AM »
In terms of whose writing I miss the most:

Adam Foster Collins
Tom MacWood

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2007, 09:01:37 AM »
Quite frankly, I think Barney is right up there as is Shivas for top writers.
Mr Hurricane

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2007, 09:02:09 AM »
Kyle,

With all due respect to Tom Mac, even he would tell you that his research skills are second to none, but that he would love to improve his writing. At least he told me that after his arts and crafts piece.  I look forward to reading his newest this weekend to see if he has been working on it as he promised!
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2007, 09:05:35 AM »
Maybe instead of ranking (who needs more ranking) we should just offer up critques of our favorite writers.

For John, it might read:

A veteran writer on gca.com, but still retains his edge.   Provocative is his middle name....blah, blah, blah.

For Paul Cowley, it might read:

There is a marked difference in style among his posts.  One can't help but wonder about the effects of late night wine drinking in this.......

For me it might read,

Just who is this goofball anyway? ;)
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

John Kavanaugh

Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2007, 09:08:20 AM »
Jeff,

Step back and quit kissing ass of guys who put your name in print.  Flemma excluded.  Either blow your own horn or stay out of the band.

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2007, 09:12:06 AM »
John,

Near as I know, only Brad has put my name in print, and then only sparingly.

there is that Kavanaugh edge, but good writing requires getting your facts straight, as well.  No wait, muck rakers rarely get their facts straight!
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

John Kavanaugh

Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2007, 09:15:46 AM »
Jeff,

I was just pointing out the bias in all these rankings.  Staying on topic, what it the link to that internet article you post now and then.  It always seems informative for your demographic.

Are you telling me that our Minni tag team never influenced an article in their local paper?  
« Last Edit: August 23, 2007, 09:17:11 AM by John Kavanaugh »

John Kavanaugh

Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2007, 09:19:07 AM »
note:  Ken Kavanaugh is a huge Matt Ward fan...as am I.  Ken Kavanaugh also thinks highly of Brad Klein, Ron Whitten and Joe Passov...He has told me this many, many times.  Now I feel dirty because I know I left guys out...I have never read a bad word a professional golf writer has ever written about my brother...I love em, each and every one of them.  I would like to send each and every one of them #1 Golf Writer tee shirts.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2007, 09:26:30 AM by John Kavanaugh »

John Kavanaugh

Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2007, 09:21:52 AM »
Come to think of it I just can't get enough of Matt Ward.  Love the pardner, field work, sooooooo's....can't get enough of it.  He might be my number one perfessional writer.

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2007, 09:27:27 AM »
Are you telling me that our Minni tag team never influenced an article in their local paper?  

John --

I must be away for most of the day, but before I go:

I have had absolutely nothing to do with my paper's coverage of golf, ever.

Period.

Rick sometimes wrote about golf. I believe he mentioned Jeff's name in a review of The Quarry and/or of The Wilderness at Fortune Bay.

Why wouldn't he have mentioned the architect? He was a newspaperman, and those were newsworthy courses -- unquestionably two of the best courses built in Minnesota in many years.

I'll check the facts when I return.

Dan
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

John Kavanaugh

Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2007, 09:31:21 AM »
Are you telling me that our Minni tag team never influenced an article in their local paper?  

John --

I must be away for most of the day, but before I go:

I have had absolutely nothing to do with my paper's coverage of golf, ever.

Period.

Rick sometimes wrote about golf. I believe he mentioned Jeff's name in a review of The Quarry and/or of The Wilderness at Fortune Bay.

Why wouldn't he have mentioned the architect? He was a newspaperman, and those were newsworthy courses -- unquestionably two of the best courses built in Minnesota in many years.

I'll check the facts when I return.

Dan

Dan,

I brought it up because I seem to recall the articles and of course you loved the courses.  It would have been crazy not to give them a mention as difficult as meeting a deadline everyday must be.  I figured Jeff just forgot.  note:  I can't get a word out under a deadline and do admire the ability of professional writers to at least turn something in no matter how trivial.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2007, 09:32:51 AM by John Kavanaugh »

John Kavanaugh

Re:the Golf Club Atlas Writers Ranking List
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2007, 09:34:17 AM »
I see Big Red Momma just logged on.  Ran is the best!!!