Bandon Dunes from a variety of viewpoints

[Jason Topp]

Jason,
   Excellent report, I hope to hear more as you ponder over the experience. If you don't mind pick one hole from each course that was a favorite of yours and why.

Ed:  Here are the ones that stick in my brain at the moment:

Bandon Dunes:  16 - 365 yard par 4 -

http://www.bandondunesgolf.com/bandon_hole16.cfm

I really thought the tee shot was fun.  It looked impossible to hit it over the gorse but it was not really that difficult.  Beyond that challenge, however, there were a lot of puts and takes regarding where to place the tee shot, given the severe bunker eating into the middle of the green.

Bandon Trails - 12 - 245 yard par three  

http://www.bandondunesgolf.com/bt_hole12.cfm

I really liked the way the big hump right of the green worked because of the temptation to bail out right.  The hump made up and down nearly impossible to a front hole location.  A very simple concept on unremarkable land that works well.

Pacific Dunes - 12 529 yard Par 5

http://www.bandondunesgolf.com/pacific_hole12.cfm
 
This hole was downwind and reachable on my visit.  The best feature of the hole in my view is the approach, where a couple of ridges serve as a funnel to the center of the green.  The agressive player has to use this feature to reach in 2 unless approached from the longer right side.  The direct route catches a downslope and goes over.  Many birdies but one never knows the outcome until it is over.


 

[Tom_Doak]

Jason:

Yours was a most interesting perspective (or report on others' perspectives) and I thank you for that.  I wish I'd get the same report on some of my other courses, where I haven't had a chance to play with as many different classes of golfers as I have done at Pacific Dunes.

I'm also surprised and pleased that you singled out the 12th hole, which most commentators pick as the hole which they could have helped me design better.

However, I don't think Pacific is classed by classes of players as simply as you've done it.  I've played with two women (a 15 and a 24) who shot their career-low rounds there, because it's relatively short and their drives get so much more run there.  Your observation that some golfers get intimidated and press and start racking up big numbers is absolutely spot on ... but for anybody who is relatively straight and doesn't hit ground balls off the tee, and who can pick up the knack of putting from off the green up a bank, it can yield some surprisingly low net scores, too.

And I would agree with the general consensus about Bandon Dunes, with the caveat that you are discussing the middle tees.  Those tees back at 7200 yards (which are seldom ever used anymore) give an entirely different perspective on it.  If a good club pro plays the three courses from all the way back, he'll probably find Bandon Dunes the hardest of the three, because it's 500 yards longer than the other two, and in any wind the difference is magnified.

[rjsimper]

Jason - I agree 100% on your take on the 12th - for the people that hate the middle stretch of Trails, I believe this is a remarkable achievement of simplicity on a hole of it's length.  That hump singularly makes the hole.

[Jason Topp]

Jason:

However, I don't think Pacific is classed by classes of players as simply as you've done it.  I've played with two women (a 15 and a 24) who shot their career-low rounds there, because it's relatively short and their drives get so much more run there.  Your observation that some golfers get intimidated and press and start racking up big numbers is absolutely spot on ... but for anybody who is relatively straight and doesn't hit ground balls off the tee, and who can pick up the knack of putting from off the green up a bank, it can yield some surprisingly low net scores, too.

And I would agree with the general consensus about Bandon Dunes, with the caveat that you are discussing the middle tees.  Those tees back at 7200 yards (which are seldom ever used anymore) give an entirely different perspective on it.  If a good club pro plays the three courses from all the way back, he'll probably find Bandon Dunes the hardest of the three, because it's 500 yards longer than the other two, and in any wind the difference is magnified.

Tom - thanks for the comments.  I'm sure I have oversimplified to some extent, but I find it extremely unlikely that a high handicapper will escape from your bunkers or the shaggy grass around them.  

Do you view that as acceptable or even ideal?  I'm not sure I have an opinion on the issue.  I just saw a lot of repeat shots from bunkers (including a few of my own).  On the other hand, I saw the thrill of a man who finally hit a bunker shot correctly on 18 and put it within 15 feet of the hole.


As to the difficulty of Bandon Dunes, that was based on the black markers (which were about 6700) compared to the black markers at Pacific (Which I think were about 6600).  For me, it did not seem to make much difference whether I played from the black or green at any of the three courses.  I tended to score the same.

[Jay Cox]

Very interesting, Jason!
I was quite surprised by your report on the relative difficulty of Pacific and Bandon.  I have only made the trip once, three years ago, and haven't played Trails.  I had a very different experience.  

There were four of us playing:
- me, a five handicap at the time: fairly long, tend to hit a string of good shots followed by a very bad shot, inconsistent short game, good putter
- a friend of mine, also a five handicap:  not quite as long but more consistent, very good mid-iron player, so-so long putter but good short putter
- his father, a fourteen handicap:  consistent fade/slice, maxing out at around 230; very good wedge player, except out of sand, where he's only so-so; pretty good putter
- my father, who hardly ever plays:  never hits woods, but gets pretty good distance on irons; very inconsistent - a mix of solid shots and shots that go five feet; poor long putter but good short putter.

The two fathers only played one round a day, while my friend and I played two or, in one case, three.  After reading your posts, I dug up the old scorecards (which, amazingly, I still had).

Day 1: Pacific
Round 1 - moderate wind, black tees:  83, 80
Round 2 - moderate wind, green tees:  76, 76, 93, (1 par, 7 bogeys, 5 doubles or worse, 5 Xs)

Day 2:  Bandon
Round 1 - moderate wind, black tees:  81, 87
Round 2 - moderate to high wind, green tees:  79, 80, 101, (2 pars, 4 bogeys, 4 doubles or worse, 8 Xs)

Day 3:  Bandon
Round 1 - not much wind, black tees:  78, 78
Round 2 - moderate wind, green tees:  86, 76, 99, (2 pars, 4 bogeys, 8 doubles or worse, 4 Xs)

Day 4:  Pacific
Round 1 - not much wind, black tees:  72, 78
Round 2 - moderate wind, green tees:  75, 74, 85, (2 birdies, 4 pars, 5 bogeys, 5 doubles or worse, 2 Xs)
Round 3 - a heck of a lot of wind, mixed tees (we moved up on some of the holes into the wind to give ourselves a fighting chance):  89, 86

[Richard Boult]

Jay, perhaps you could describe how both courses played for your friend and both fathers.  Interesting that these courses can give up scores between 72 and 101 within just a couple days of each other!

[Michael Dugger]

I think any conclusion drawn from this thread ought to be taken with a grain of salt.

There are numerous courses in the style of those at Bandon Dunes Resort.  If the Haveshkamps of the world find it too difficult or whatever, surely they will enjoy golf up the road at Sandpines better.