[David Stamm]

Ed, does it feel and play like other Ross courses?

[JMorgan]

Wayne,

No, I didn't have the chance to do that yet.   I certainly want to do it retrospectively.

You know, I had to wonder.   With all of the railing about the sad state of golf course architecture prior to NGLA (vis a vis the recent discussion of the best course prior (Myopia vs Garden City vs Chicago), it occurs to me that if Leatherstocking was anything at all like its present state in 1909 when it opened it should have blown the golf world away.

However, given that it was built as a community club in a then remote part of upstate NY, I'm sure it wasn't much seen by the cognescenti of the time.  

If that course was built on Long Island, or outside Boston, we might be hailing Devereaux Emmett with much the same enthusiasm as is given Charles MacDonald, no disrespect to his wonderful contributions intended.

It's just that it's becoming very, very clear to me that Emmett had as much to do with the success of early golf course architecture in this country as anyone, and more than almost everyone.

Mark,

Too funny.  

Mike,  Dev actually live in Cooperstown for a while.  If you send me TWO cases of Ommegang (Wit, please, before the summer's up), I'll tell you much more.

He deserves much more credit.  That conviction was behind my question to Ian Andrew that went unanswered when we discussed his top 25 architects of all time here a few weeks ago.  Namely, how can you not include a guy who designed over 70 courses in that era, most in the NYC metro area, many of which are now NLE for reasons beyond design consideration?  I suspect the reason behind much Emmet amnesia is complex; it has much to do with his diffident personality and comfortable class position; but, perhaps most important today, a lot of the research starts with a single source, the authors of which dismiss everything after GCGC because they claim he encountered different conditions than the Hempstead plain in subsequent work and as a result his designs supposedly suffered.  

I read in a book published just a few years ago that Emmet probably became interested in golf course architecture after CBM sent him on an errand while he was in the UK to measure famous golf holes -- never mind that Island Links/Garden City were completed years before.  How about the suspicion that Emmet may have had NLGA input beyond just relaying the measurements to his friend Macdonald -- the informal kind that friends make to friends?

[Mike_Cirba]

James,

Dev's interest in golf courses and architecture seems to have well preceeded the errand he ran for MacDonald and it seems to be a case of chicken and/or egg between the two men.  

For years prior he went to Great Britain and Ireland almost annually and played all of the great courses over there.  His earliest designs here were from the late 1890s and you're right...most are now gone because of proximity to high population centers and real estate property values.

I also found out that he had a nervous breakdown in 1931, possibly as a result of the market crash, never recovered, and died in 1934.  

For anyone needing proof of his design brilliance, and the fact that he was a visionary ahead of his time, Leatherstocking is the real deal.

[Gerry B]

"blown away" is a strong statement.  plus  it is getting harder in recent times to find those hidden gems as i have managed to see so many great courses - many due to the resources of GCA. however going back a few years based upon limited prior knowledge at the time, my list of courses that exceeded expectations and in some cases are  / were not included on the top of the various ranking lists or considered relatively obscure would include:

Myopia Hunt Club
Indianwood (Old) in Detroit
Scarboro in Toronto
St Thomas in Union Ontario
BCC - Five Farms East
Atlantic City CC
Yale
 

[Scott_Burroughs]

Just this week I played what is probably the biggest surprise course I can recall.

Dev Emmett's Leatherstocking Golf Course in Cooperstown, NY, circa 1909.

They have just finished the implementation of a 10 year master plan put together by Bob Cupp, who I didn't think had much of a flair for that sort of thing.

The results are absolutely tremendous.   I don't know what the course was like previously, but in it's current state, it's one of the best vintage courses in America.

Certainly seems like you were enjoying yourself:


Too bad they didn't do something about the tree encroachment on #9:


Probably glad he wasn't in this double penalty bunker:

Craig certainly seconded your experience.

And I 'thirded' it.

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Yes, here's a 'fourth' for Leatherstocking.  What a good routing and interesting golf holes.  I haven't played much golf this year, very busy with work, but it's the standout of the year so far.  It would be nice if Bethpage Green was in this condition, and it's funny to think, that at one time, it probably was.  

Mike- I was in that bunker right on 9-didn't get through a 4 iron, and it hit the right side of the green and went straight right--there's absolutely no shot--maybe 90 deg. left and then on the green in 3?  But it's completely my fault.  It's not a bad green, and from the green looking back towards the tee, there's more room than appears.  

[Mike_Cirba]

Man...who's that bald guy with that abbreviated follow-through?

The issue with the heavily treed right side of #9 is that it's blocking a heavily congested public road.   In fact, there was a serious fender-bender taking place while we were on the 10th tee!

I'm not giving those trees a pass, but in Emmett's day, that road was horse and buggy primarily.   Now, it's lined with summertime tourists and short of building some type of ugly fence, I'm not sure there's a good answer.  

I'm also amazed that cars don't get taken out on 3 & 4 because the public road is about 2 paces from the par 3 third green and any type of slice or lefty hook will be dancing on the hood of a Lexus on 4.  

[Scott_Burroughs]

Mike,

As you can see, there are 2 rows of trees there, one on the
left side of the cartpath and one on the right side (literally by
the road).  I think the row left of the carpath could go and
there would still be enough protection from the other row.  
Those pines are pretty thick.

For fair balance, here's a better pic of the course and certain
players, the approach to #1 green, with it's very nice left-to-
right tilt (and the menacing #2 in the distance):

[Tommy Williamsen]

The Club at Black Rock knocked my socks off.  I figured it would have a pretty face but did not expect it to be as good as its reports.  It is indeed beautiful, but it is also great golf architecture.  The routing is good, the bunkering strategic, the greens sufficiently undulating to be interesting but not as goofy as other greens of his, and the tee shots demanding.  I could play it every day despite the waterfalls.

[Mike_Cirba]

Fair point about the trees on 9, Scott.   I'm sure they are going out of their way to be overprotective to the right-handed slice.

If you've got more pics, keep 'em coming!    Let's get this course out of the shadows and into the light.

[Brad Swanson]

The Club at Black Rock knocked my socks off.  I figured it would have a pretty face but did not expect it to be as good as its reports.  It is indeed beautiful, but it is also great golf architecture.  The routing is good, the bunkering strategic, the greens sufficiently undulating to be interesting but not as goofy as other greens of his, and the tee shots demanding.  I could play it every day despite the waterfalls.

Tommy,
   I'm wondering how a course voted "Best of..." could be a big surprise for being good?    That is a partially rhetorical question.

Cheers,
Brad

[Cory Lewis]

Biggest surprise to me will always be The Meadow Club.  The bunkering and the greens absoutely blew me away, wow!  Others I would mention:

Pine Barrens
Dupont
Gulph Mills
Merion(West)
Rutland

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()