[Dan King]

Hopefully there are a few here that remember me. I used to be more involved here, but have gotten away from golf and been going to school for the last decade, give or take a semester or two. I'm currently finishing up a Masters in Public History. My thesis I'm going to work on is using historic preservation tools for golf courses built during the Golden Age of American golf architecture. There are currently a few courses on the list, but no concerted effort to use the tools. Currently on the list for architectural reasons are Baltusrol, Merion and Shinnecock. The 27 other courses are on the list are either because they are part of historic districts or because they have local historic significance.

Is anyone aware of any attempts to use the National Register of Historic Places to protect golf courses? How about anyone aware of pros and cons of using historic preservation to protect golf course architecture?

Cheers,
Dan King

They don't build courses for people. They build monuments to themselves.
 --George Archer (on modern golf architects)

[Garland Bayley]

I believe there was a thread on that a few years ago.

And, why haven't you signed up for King's Putter in Washington this year?

[Garland Bayley]

E.g. http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,54953.0.html
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,54953.0.html
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,26017.msg485081.html#msg485081
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,50612.msg1152469.html#msg1152469
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,53768.msg1236987.html#msg1236987

[Garland Bayley]

Perhaps
http://crm.cr.nps.gov/archive/23-10/23-10-5.pdf
but it's not loading on my computer.

[Dan King]

Thanks. Hopefully we can get a discussion on preserving golf courses with the register. I think golf course owners and operators are scared of the register as they believe it will cause them to lose ability to make changes to the course. Reality is it keeps government entities from harming the course without very strong justification. Some local or state entities can put other restrictions on registered property, but primarily it is intended to keep government from touching historically significant places.

The really nice thing about landscapes, as opposed to buildings, is that they can more easily be restored to a place where they can have historic significance, while generally built properties have to retain historic integrity.

The nice thing about preserving based on architecture is that the landscape doesn't have to preserved exactly as it existed, but only needs to retain enough of the architects original intent. It can take into account the distance the golf ball travels, safety issues and other concerns. Take a course like Pasatiempo, which was originally designed to have a more wide-open feel. But trees were added after someone was killed on the Ninth fairway from a golf ball from a tee shot on the first hole. This means it is less likely the loss of the wide-open aspect of Pasatiempo would count as much as just tree growth run amok.

My game was in no shape for the King's Putter last year and no closer to being there this year. The good news is I'm 115 pounds lighter, so when I get back to playing golf I'm going to need a new swing anyway.

It didn't load on my computer either. I'll try later in case it is a server problem.

Cheers,
Dan King

Architecture has been called the art of building beautifully, a fixation of man’s thinking, and record of his activity…  Keep in mind that last phrase. It is important.
-Ernst Johnson, architect

[Rich Goodale]

Hi Dan

Oakmont is listed on the National Register of Historic Places.

Rich

[Mark Chaplin]

Dan what do you mean by "protect golf courses" stop them being built on or holes being changed? The first is a given the later simply impossible.

[Tom_Doak]

Dan:

Welcome back!  [I hope this means you're back.]

I'm pleased to hear of your thesis and will be happy to help out in any way you think appropriate.

I'm also curious to hear about how the register actually works as applied to golf courses.  Baltusrol has asked us for input on its two courses, and part of the topic is what can or can't be done as a result of their new status.


Mark:

Your premise is not quite correct.  If Walton Heath had been on the Register, I assume the M-25 would not have been built right through it.

[Niall C]

Tom

The M25 could well have been built the way it was irrespective of any designation for Walton Heath. After all even SSSI's get built on and listed buildings get developed. It is just harder to do but certainly not impossible.

Niall

[Dan King]

Regarding me and golf, I've been away from the game for a while, collecting various degrees, but I'm thinking it is time to get back. I figured a thesis that combines my two primary golf interests, architecture and history, might be just the ticket.

The Register has been used to protect buildings for decades. The point of the National Register is to keep government entities from adversely effecting historic property without strong justification. For instance, California has plans to build a high-speed train across the center of California. This has been a jobs programs for historians, who have to make sure the train does not adversely effect any historic properties. Using the Register for golf will mean that a government entity would have to jump through significant hoops if they want to do anything that could adversely effect the historic significance of the golf course.

I would hope courses would want to use this as a marketing tool. There are enough golfers interested in history and travel, they might want to tour courses that are historically significant. Many golfers would much rather go to a course that retains MacKenzie's original intent, rather than one that just uses his name.

While the intent of the Register was to prevent government entities from changing historic properties, some local governments have used the Register to stop owners from making significant changes to their property, but that is rare.

There is no set process for including golf courses on the Register. It has been done with some 30 golf courses, for a variety of reasons. The plan for my thesis is to come up with a process for including golf courses on architectural merit. I would want to setup an appraisal process to see if the course has retained enough of the original intent of the architect to remain historically significant. Courses can be longer (to some set amount, dependent on equipment changes) and features added for safety, so long as they do not take away from the intent of the original architecture.  If a course that wants to be Registered, but doesn't retain enough of the original course, the course would get a report on why it is not eligible and would have the ability to make the changes to make it eligible (assuming they still have the land.)

I'm not sure how to handle grasses, plants and trees: does a change from one type of grass to another type change the enough of the characteristics of the course to lose its historical significance?

I missed Oakmont, Rihc. Thanks.

Cheers,
Dan King

If we are to preserve the integrity of golf as left to us by our forefathers, it is up to all of us to carry on the true spirit of  the game.
 --Ben Crenshaw

[Tim_Weiman]

Dan,

Of course we remember you. Welcome back!

[Garland Bayley]

...
My game was in no shape for the King's Putter last year and no closer to being there this year. The good news is I'm 115 pounds lighter, so when I get back to playing golf I'm going to need a new swing anyway.
...

Don't tell me that beard weighed 115 pounds, because if you lost 115 pounds of body weight since last King's Putter, you probably weigh about 40 pounds max right now.
 

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Dan,

Oakhurst Golf Links is on the Registry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakhurst_Links

[Dan King]

I've only lost about 40 pounds since last years King's Putter. I've lost 115 pounds since Nov. 2012. I'm slowly writing a book about how I did it because I used cannabis to help both as an appetite suppressant and as a reward. Roly Poly? Roll Another Fatty.

Oakhurst is there for its place in history, not for its historic architecture.  There are other courses that have historic significance, such as an early African-American course, and things like that.

Cheers,
Dan King

To learn golf architecture one must know golf itself, its companionship, its joys, its sorrows, its battles -- one must play golf and love it.
 --George Thomas

[Frank Giordano]

Dan,

The Village of Pinehurst has Historic Preservation status.  If and how that status affects the Pinehurst courses I do not know.  Richard Mandell can probably inform you well on this matter.

Good luck with the thesis.

[Keith Cutten]

Dan,

I am completing a Masters in Landscape Architecture from Guelph (Canada) currently and have planned to propose a similar problem for my thesis.  Also, I have been involved in golf course design and heritage planning for several years now.  I am a Registered Professional Planner here in Canada and am aware of our heritage process as it pertains to golf courses.  It is similar to that in the US.  Golf courses with defined heritage values can be recognized as Cultural Landscapes or Heritage Landscapes if a statement of significance and associated report are written describing the specific elements which make the site important.  As you stated, a golf course could be important due to events, the designer or the design itself (either alone or part of a large portfolio of work). 

However, the statements and reports are often vague and do not give the power needed to protect those elements which are important to the overall design.  This is because the experts on golf and not experts on the process and vise versa.  Further, the process is relatively new and is often not understood by the average member or owner, who may have preconceived notions on heritage preservation based on built heritage misconceptions. 

The report and statement of significance should be constructed as to provide the club with a tool to inform their own actions.  One should think of these documents as an outline of all features on the course, their current historic integrity, the additions or alterations to the historic landscape, and how all this meets with the original intent of the design.  Then, significant elements can be protected and others restored.  Of course, if things have been changed for good reason, an expert would also be able to describe this in the report and statement.  In the end, the package would prescribe a vision for the club and would define the historic integrity of the course.  If the integrity was at a level worth protecting, then a designation would be pursued.     

Here are some links to our Canadian publications for heritage landscapes.  What you will need to focus on is the evaluation process and the transfer of this information into practical guidelines to preserve the essence of the course on a hole-by-hole basis.       

Canada:
http://www.historicplaces.ca/media/18072/81468-parks-s+g-eng-web2.pdf

Ontario:
http://www.mtc.gov.on.ca/en/publications/Heritage_Tool_Kit_HPE_Eng.pdf 
http://www.mtc.gov.on.ca/en/publications/Heritage_Tool_Kit_HCD_English.pdf

Hopefully someone can direct you to similar information from the US.  All the best in your efforts and if you need anything please let me know. 

Keith

[Dan King]

Thanks for the info Keith. We might want to use each others research to compare the differences between the U.S. and Canada. The National Park Services runs the National Register of Historic Places here in the states. They have plenty of documentation for how to use the Register:
http://www.nps.gov/nr/publications/index.htm

For historic landscapes:
http://www.nps.gov/nr/publications/bulletins/nrb18/

Cheers,
Dan King

I can't thank the game enough for what it did for me. I've been different all my life and the game let me be myself. I did it my way.
 --Moe Norman

[Mark Chaplin]

Tom the new HS2 high speed train line from London to the wilds will require numerous protected buildings and land to be built over. The planning approval takes longer and may require a public enquiry but projects of national importance such as the M25 aren't and were not stopped due to preservation orders. Minor re-routing etc maay take place. I believe Trump Scotland was on protected land yet the lure of the investors buck soon smoothed over any political objections.

[Adam Lawrence]

In the UK the 'listing' of buildings of historic or architectural importance can also cover landscapes. Several of Capability Brown and Humphry Repton's parks are listed. The creation of the new-ish golf course at Heythrop Park in Oxfordshire was only made possible because the passage of time, and the death of many of the trees, had degraded the parkland structure and the developers agreed to reconstruct much of the original planting.

In principle, therefore, there is no reason why a golf course couldn't be listed in the same way. This wouldn't, as Chappers correctly points out, prevent alteration, but it would mean that changes would have to pass a higher threshold before being approved. Whether a club would want its course listing in this way is a moot point!

[Lou_Duran]

I'm currently finishing up a Masters in Public History. My thesis I'm going to work on is using historic preservation tools for golf courses built during the Golden Age of American golf architecture. There are currently a few courses on the list, but no concerted effort to use the tools. Currently on the list for architectural reasons are Baltusrol, Merion and Shinnecock.

Two questions:

What is "Public" History?  I suspect that it has to do with the collective as opposed to the individual (private), and would be interested in the names of the courses you took in pursuing the degree.  Sidebar, did you finish your law degree?

Is an intent of your thesis to provide the theoretical means or basis ("tools") for third-party interveners to thwart changes desired by the owners to their property?    

 

[Dan King]

Two answers Lou.

Public history is the bringing history to the masses. It is working in archives, museums, libraries and historic preservation. The other history that most people think of history is academic history, primarily preparing students to teach.  I've just been collecting degrees since retirement.

I didn't finish law school. I never really wanted to be an attorney, I just got a scholarship to law school that was too good not to use. I felt like law school was more like a training school for attorneys and I went there to learn about the law. Got about as much learning about the law I wanted in two years.

The Register is primarily voluntary. There are ways to protect properties against the owners wishes, but I do not see that in golf courses. I envision many U.S. golden age golf courses as wanting to be part of this, both to protect themselves from the government forcing change to their course and as a marketing tool.

How you been Lou?

Cheers,
Dan King

The King's guards shall attend him at the church and also when he goeth to the fields to walk or goff.
  --Lord Lothian (referring to Charles II)

[Keith Cutten]

Dan – I think that would be an interesting study.  Please keep me informed of your progress (kcutten@hotmail.com).  I am completing my thesis part-time while working, so it may be a while yet for me...

Also, I too have felt for some time that these designations should serve as a marketing tool for historic courses.  Not only would a course be part of a larger portfolio of an architect’s work, but with a designation these courses could now separate themselves from others based on historic preservation.  Further, those courses with less money, but which are more original due to less modifications over the years, could sell themselves based on this fact.  However, having tried to sell this idea here in Canada to a few select courses, I must say that people are sceptical and the first course or two would likely have to be completed at a loss to stir some interest.   Hence, this is a great topic for a funded masters thesis!

Adam L – You are completely correct.  The listing does not protect the course at all, but simply defines it an important site increasing the process needed to make changes.  This is where clubs hesitate as this increased process screams more money and time.  The heritage report and statement of significance are the important factors.  If they are crafted by an expert in both golf design and the heritage process, they will act purely as an aid to the club during future work.  Removing or altering a feature is not prohibited, as long as the major attributes of the golf hole, as defined in the heritage report and statement, are not altered (e.g. views, strategy and contour).  Tree clearing, for example, would be justified much more easily to members if a historic view central to the design was to be restored.  Also, as with buildings, the heritage process understand that repairs will need to be made overtime to upgrade infrastructure, but sets a process for ensuring the intent of the design is not altered.   

[Bill Brightly]

Dan,

I've never been involved with a club that applied for status on the National Registry of Historic Places, but my guess is a club would do it to protect their land from potential eminent domain claims by a state or local town. I would assume that Oakmont doesn't want the State of PA to take their land to widen the PA Tpk. and say "just move a few holes." Probably the same with Rt. 78 near Baltustrol and Ardmore Ave. near Merion.

I imagine that the clubs are ready to go through an added step if needed to alter a golf hole. The benefit is that their property borders are protected.

[Kevin_Reilly]

Dan, I was looking around the archives here and found this "In My Opinion" by Kevin Mendik that I don't believe was mentioned above.  I thought you'd find it interesting.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/in-my-opinion/kevin-mendik-challenges-of-restoring-a-classic-american-golf-course/

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