News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Chris_Clouser

Coyote Crossing (w/pics)
« on: August 19, 2007, 03:47:35 PM »
The next in my write ups on the top publics in Indiana

Coyote Crossing clocks in at just over 6,800 yards from the tips, but it provides more than enough strategic challenge for most of the golfing public.  With the use of the terrain and a natural series of run-offs from the Wabash River in play, the course has some excellent natural features.  Irwin routed the course in two loops that run through the landforms and make use of the natural water in an efficient manner.  One of the things that Irwin did that will please most golfers is he only routed two par fours over 450 yards, something that is becoming all too familiar on modern layouts.  
   No one will be amazed by the green complexes that Irwin constructed, but all of them have some subtle contouring that impacts the play on the hole, such as the thumbprint green on the third hole.  They also are exemplary of the architect blending the complex into the existing terrain, as was done on the fourth hole.  

Note the thumbprint in the front of the third green.


   The economical use of sand bunkers is also appreciated as two holes do not even make use of that particular hazard and less than fifty in total are found around the course.  In most instances the use of angled greens and one bunker provide the strategic challenge on each hole and are often placed along the center line of the hole.  Irwin supplemented this with carries over the streams on five holes to provide some teeth and heroic elements to his design.  The few ponds that are used run between holes and only impact shots way off line.  All of these design elements are in place and create several holes that appear to play straight off the tee but in fact require a slight bend in the hole and some excellent shotmaking, a hallmark of Irwin’s career.

Holes of note:

Hole 2 – 552 yards – A double dogleg par five that works around a bunker cluster on the tee shot and a small pond and pot bunker on the approach.  The green is one of the smallest on the course and a well controlled pitch is the only option into the green or the player will be in either the sand short of the bunker that is hidden long.

The approach to the small second green.


Hole 4 – 426 yards - A downhill hole with a fairway that runs from left to right with the natural grade of the terrain helping the player to get into ideal position with their approach over the center line bunker thirty yards short of the green.

From behind the green, note the downhill nature, the slope from the right side (left from the tee) and the bunker bleeding into the line of play short of the green (rough short of green).


Hole 5 – 217 yards - Then Coyote Crossing reveals something new on the fifth, some rugged terrain that Irwin seems to make the most of in a common fashion during the round.  He traverses a stream with a par three, this one totaling over 200 yards from the back markers and downhill.  The large green terrorizes the player from the tee with trees seemingly cutting into the line of play on the right and squeezing more than the chute for the shot.  What one finds at the bottom is nothing more than the largest green on the course that seems to run off of a center spine and towards the front edges.



Hole 7 – 352 yards - The seventh is a fine short par four that doglegs over a bunker at the corner and along the path of a stream that must be cleared on the tee shot.  

The 2nd shot



Hole 8 – 179 yards - The eighth then runs downhill again crossing over the water hazard to an angled green that features no sand bunkers.

From the tee


Hole 9 – 530 yards - Irwin also provides another downhill tee shot on the risk-reward par five with a stream bisecting the fairway and a pond protecting the approach into the green complex, accompanied by a group of four bunkers.  

From behind you see the narrow entrance into the green with water in play.


Hole 10 – 401 yards - The tenth is perhaps the best architectural hole on the course as the fairway disappears below with a hill biting into the hole from the right and the green appearing in the distance.  At only 400 yards from the back, this hole is not a destroyer of scorecards but it is just a beautiful example of using the natural terrain to form a hole.  The green is built into a plateau at the base of the hill behind the green with one bunker protecting front left and the stream cutting into the fairway.

The tee shot with the green just visible in the distance

The approach


Hole 11 – 322 yards - Following this is a hole with a large island landing zone and a green perched just on the other side of the creek coming back into play.  

The approach


The 12th - 537 yards - The tee shot must deal with the bunkers on the left and then hug this side of the hole to have an easy approach into the narrow green protected by a long pot on the right side.



Hole 15 – 531 yards - The fifteenth is another risk-reward par five with water along the left side of the hole all the way to the green.  The less daring angle of approach is into the green that runs hard towards the water.  

The approach is difficult from the left with the water cutting into the hole.


Hole 16 – 451 yards - The sixteenth is longest par four on the back side and features another example of wonderful terrain movement framing the hole.  The entire hole runs from right to left with the green placed in a hollow at the base of the slope with trees ringing the green on the right side.  

From the tee you can see the movement of the terrain from the right.


The hill on the left side of this picture is in play if you push your tee shot


Hole 17 - Again Irwin traverses a difficult part of the landscape with a par three on the penultimate hole that looks much longer than it actually plays across a valley.

The tee shot


The best thing about Coyote Crossing is the extremely great value it presents as it can be played for under $50 every day of the week.  It is entirely walkable and encourages such practices if at all possible.  The location of the course does limit it to visibility from all but those in the Lafayette area, but that may soon change as the course has been recognized as the top public course in the state of Indiana in the past and as the Course of the Year by the National Golf Course Owners Association in 2005.  The course does a good job of combining the strategic elements of design with natural land movement within a beautiful setting.  It takes the best elements of courses like Bear Slide, the Warren Course and Covered Bridge into one course.  No wonder it sits in my personal top five for public courses in the state.

Andy Troeger

Re:Coyote Crossing (w/pics)
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2007, 04:27:38 PM »
The best thing about Coyote Crossing is the extremely great value it presents as it can be played for under $50 every day of the week.  It is entirely walkable and encourages such practices if at all possible.  The location of the course does limit it to visibility from all but those in the Lafayette area, but that may soon change as the course has been recognized as the top public course in the state of Indiana in the past and as the Course of the Year by the National Golf Course Owners Association in 2005.  The course does a good job of combining the strategic elements of design with natural land movement within a beautiful setting.  It takes the best elements of courses like Bear Slide, the Warren Course and Covered Bridge into one course.  No wonder it sits in my personal top five for public courses in the state.


Chris,
I'm sure you knew I'd post based on quick exchange on the Kampen thread. I thoroughly agree with some of your comments. Coyote Crossing is certainly a well above-average public layout and a tremendous value at under $50. It also is walkable, although it was 90+ and humid when I played it, so we rode.

I do not think its in the top ten public layouts in the state, however, for two reasons. One is general lack of risk/reward situations for the better player. Most of the holes are strictly position to position types of holes with the exception of the par fives, and most of those are long enough and well protected enough to not be worth the risk. #9 might be the best of the bunch.

The second is the course appears to play much harder for the lesser player than the stronger one. I could see the course allowing low scores to good players due to the lack of length and fairly reasonable greens. However, the narrowness of it and the forced carries caused some trouble for my father, a 15-18 handicap who does not carry the ball very far. #7, #10 and #11 for example were tough for him, but for me both were placement off the tee (3-5 wood on #7 and #10 and iron on #11) and a wedge approach.

I do think its a fine course and I had quite a bit of fun playing it. I prefer it to any other course in the Lafayette area in terms of architectural quality, although I enjoy Ackerman Hills at Purdue as a fun sporty course. I don't think it matches courses like Rock Hollow, The Fort, Sultan's Run, Warren, Blackthorn, or Bear Slide. I would put it behind Mystic Hills and Cobblestone as well. Just my take.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2007, 04:28:52 PM by Andy Troeger »

Chris_Clouser

Re:Coyote Crossing (w/pics)
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2007, 07:08:57 PM »
Andy,

I can see your point on the difficulty issues.  It's not hard enough for the top players and might have forced carries that are too much for the high handicapper.  It just seemed to fall right into my game though.  

I would disagree on the risk-reward elements though.  Several holes had some heroic elements if you wanted the preferred angle into the greens.  One has a bunker on the left protecting it, but the length of the hole doesn't warrant that shot necessarily.  The tee shot on 2 requires a carry over the bunkers at the corner of the dogleg if you want to have a go at the green in two.  Three has a bunker protecting the line towards the green.  Seven requires the player to fade a shot over the bunker and around the bend if you want a short pitch into the green, otherwise you lay back in the fairway and have more difficult shot.  Granted a driver might be too much club, but it still is a shot that is required of the player.  And that is on the front side alone.  

On the carries, I can see how 7 and 11 would be an issue, but why would 10 be an issue off of the tee?  The creek on that hole is at the low point on the hole short of the green.  

I thought the backside did feature a little bit less of the strategic choices.  But they still did exist.  11 is easier to approach the further right you go but you put the creek in play.  12 has the bunkers off the tee.  15 has a huge risk-reward for the longer player, but I don't see how that would be worth it on that hole.  16 also plays easier if you play along the left side of the hole.  

I'll have to think about your comments though.  It could be I'm off base and I happened to find a course that is laid out specifically to the strengths of my game and just appeared to be excellent on first glance.  I also think the course at Coyote is a one that tests control and accuracy of your shots more than it does length and carry.  

Out of the courses you listed I've only seen Warren and Bear Slide thus far, so I can only compare to those two.  Of those two I like Bear Slide much more.  I think Warren is one-dimensional in design.  There are very few holes where anything but the center line is more desirable or worth the risk and the approaches are very similar on several of the holes that require a similar shot to the greens.  It is much more difficult than Bear Slide or Coyote though.    

Bear Slide seems to have a much more varied course on the approaches and green designs and has different tee shot requirements than Warren.  But then again, I'm much more familiar with Bear Slide than the others having only seeing Coyote and Warren once each.  

Usually we see eye to eye on courses, so maybe perhaps this is just one, along with Warren, we see differently.   ;D
« Last Edit: August 19, 2007, 07:11:15 PM by Chris_Clouser »

Andy Troeger

Re:Coyote Crossing (w/pics)
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2007, 07:25:15 PM »
Chris,
I will give you #2. The risk is fairly high there with bunkers and OB off the tee then water on the approach, but two good shots give an eagle opportunity so that's a good risk/reward that I had forgotten. For me at least, there's no reward to the big fade on #7 because I don't like the 30 yard pitch under any circumstance, I'd rather have 100 yards. There's not enough reward in that case for me, but others might want to give it a go.

Some of the creek crossings hurt my father on his second shots, his drives put him in places where he had to hit a really good second to clear the creek. #9 was a better example of that than #10. I like #10, but that whole stretch was a tad repetitive with creek crossings and narrow holes. Not a bad hole in the stretch, just kind of the same thing. Its one of those weird things too with me...I'm more critical of the holes because they are only hard for certain players. If they were just plain hard for everyone I'd probably like them better unless they were ridiculously so.

I don't think you're off base, just because we don't agree does not make either one of us right or wrong. There is a lot to like about Coyote, and out of the 70 public courses in Indiana that I've played I put it about 12th, so its far better than average fare. As a 3-5 handicap it would be great fun for me to play regularly, because if I played well I could shoot a good score there but with no guarantee of that. I would recommend that people in the area play there. From Indy though I would tell people to go to Rock Hollow and Mystic Hills instead of the Lafayette route.

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Coyote Crossing (w/pics)
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2007, 07:42:08 PM »
been a long time since I played there Chris, but it is a good course and, as you mentioned, a great value for the money
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Doug Ralston

Re:Coyote Crossing (w/pics)
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2007, 09:54:13 PM »
And when we played in 2005, it was in about the most immaculate condition of any course I have played ...... it almost looked like a photoshopped pic. There were 3 distinct levels of rough, and at that time the greens rolled smoo-oo-ooth.

I also rate it Top 5.

Doug
« Last Edit: August 19, 2007, 09:54:47 PM by Doug Ralston »

Chris_Clouser

Re:Coyote Crossing (w/pics)
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2007, 05:16:21 AM »
Thanks Doug.  Finally someone with some sense about them.  HAHA!


Andy Troeger

Re:Coyote Crossing (w/pics)
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2007, 02:05:46 PM »
Chris,
There is a method to my madness...I just don't always know what it is...

Matt_Ward

Re:Coyote Crossing (w/pics)
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2007, 02:09:24 PM »
Chris:

Sorry for off-topic -- but would like to get your take on what's happening (or not happening) with Hulman Links in Terre Haute ?

Always thought highly of the course although a few of the holes there -- the tree-enclosed 11th(?) is a bit strange.

Has time aged the course well ?

Chris_Clouser

Re:Coyote Crossing (w/pics)
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2007, 02:37:52 PM »
Matt,

Unfortunately, I have not been to Hulman yet.  Actually John Kavanaugh posted about the course in the last week or so and said that they have eliminated several trees.  He felt the course may be in top 10 in Indiana that he has seen.  Considering he hardly ever mentions a ranking of a course, that is probably a major indication of the impact of what they have done.  But I have heard a lot of good things about it lately.  So my expectations will probably be raised too high when I end up making it there.   ::)

Matt_Ward

Re:Coyote Crossing (w/pics)
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2007, 02:46:43 PM »
Chris:

Thanks ...

I've played the course twice and enjoyed it save for the tree dimension. With the right changes / additions -- Hulman Links could rise to national status among public courses. Lofty praise -- but the possibilities are certainly there.

Be interested to read John's thoughts.