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Re: Architectural Opinion
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2002, 08:33:02 AM »
RON FREAM!  Indeed.  Landplan Golf from Santa Rosa, Cal.  Land spreading out so far and wide, keep Manhattan and give me that scraper-side.

Folks, good people work for this firm, yet when the man at the top of the totem pole ain't no player, not even a golfer, well, it's kind of like the old trickle-down.

Is it golf architecture or is it landscape architecture?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Re: Architectural Opinion
« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2002, 08:35:29 AM »
One further thing regarding this fella:  my people tell me that he had a previous association with a guy who writes books with a Mr. Cornish.

What goes around comes around!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Architectural Opinion
« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2002, 08:45:43 AM »
Mike,
Ron Fream & David Dale.

I don't think you can make an omelet without breaking some eggs. Their self described bold style probably keeps them busy.

They do not seem concerned with using a sites natural assets but wish to create stunning courses instead. If coupled with  architecture that offers challenges than why not?

I don't think you'd fall asleep on any of the holes shown.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Mike_Cirba

Re: Architectural Opinion
« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2002, 08:51:54 AM »
Ron Fream, it is (in partnership now with David Dale).

www.golfplan.com

Philosophically, do we agree with him?  Disagree?  

Can a "minimalist" break into this game (Coore & Crenshaw, as well as Doak and Hanse being really notable exceptions to the prevailing rule)?

If an architect built Pinehurst #2 today, would anyone notice?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:08 PM by -1 »
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Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Architectural Opinion
« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2002, 09:54:53 AM »
To answer your question, Mike, I very much think that if Pinehurst #2 were built today, it would be just another course to many, because it's not flashy.  I also think they couldn't charge $300+ to play it, either.  If if cost $150 to play it, it might get better rankings than if if cost $30 to play it.  Unfortunate that that matters, but it does to many.

I'm curious to see how Rustic Canyon fares in the rankings, because Hanse is not a "name" architect, little earth was moved, and it's dirt cheap to play there.  Some of these types of courses have received praise though, such as Wild Horse, but that's an exception.  WH also doesn't have name architects, and it's in a remote location.  I'd bet if Red Mike in ND were a private enclave by a name designer in a less remote location, it'd be much more highly regarded.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:08 PM by -1 »
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Ralph Livingston

Re: Architectural Opinion
« Reply #30 on: August 22, 2002, 01:20:25 PM »
"If you built a new version of Pinehurst #2 would anyone notice?"

That might be being answered in the next year. The new 4th course at the Greenbriar was described to me as emulating #2. This archie's first strategic course? They also have plans to restore the Old White, and not by this archie.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Tom MacWood (Guest)

Re: Architectural Opinion
« Reply #31 on: August 22, 2002, 01:48:42 PM »
Yes it would be noticed.

If photographs are the determining factor for a modern course's noteriety, as a number of modern architects believe, (and evidently some on this site this site believe), #2 would still get noticed. Pinehurst might not be as photogenic as some modern lovelies, but it is certainly not ordinary looking or unphotogenic. Its features are bold - especially its greens - along with the sandy waste area, the love grass and well inegrated bunkers, presenting a fairly striking picture. Its also a difficult test (but fair) which would draw notice. And certainly the word would spread of its attributes - including its interesting terrain, sandy firm turf and short game complexity.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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archie s

Re: Architectural Opinion
« Reply #32 on: August 22, 2002, 05:09:50 PM »
8) :D ;)


Mike,


Fream & Dale, about ShoreGate. But, living own here and knowing the lay of the land, this was to easy, even without the hints.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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angie

Re: Architectural Opinion
« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2002, 06:24:14 PM »
:o  YIKES!

those bunkers look like something from the Holideck of the Starship Enterprise!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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TEPaul

Re: Architectural Opinion
« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2002, 06:48:17 PM »
It sure is Ron Fream!

When I was trying to figure out about Ardrossan Farm an East Coast representative of Ron Fream's Co. called me up about looking at that site and I told him I was working with Coore and Crenshaw on it.

That rep came over here with some unbelievably detailed plans and photos of Fream's inventory and told me I needed a company like Fream's since they were real architects and they could cost everything down to the penny.

Furthermore, that rep told me Coore and Crenshaw were just "designers" as opposed to a "real architect" like Fream and that if I went with Coore and Crenshaw they'd likely make mistakes and cost us money!

I just look back on that time and shake my head! If for some reason I'd been responsible for a golf course for GMGC at Ardrossan Farm by Ron Fream, my golf club would have killed me.

I've never played any of Fream's courses and maybe they play just fine but from the photos I've seen of them (from that rep and here) Fream's architecture is some of the "GAUDIEST" I've ever seen!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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TEPaul

Re: Architectural Opinion
« Reply #35 on: August 22, 2002, 06:55:12 PM »
Make that THE gaudiest architecture I've ever seen. I looked at those photos on this thread again and they're nothing more than a complete caricature of golf architecture! But I wish Fream well and much success--I just hope it's all in Bali--isn't Bali just about the opposite end of the world from Philadelphia?

With architecture around that looks like that stuff I can't possibly imagine why anyone on here would even take the time to criticize an architect like Tom Fazio!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:08 PM by -1 »
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