Tom Doak in New Hampshire?

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Has this been mentioned here before?

I just caught this buried in article about Harris Golf in www.golfcoursenews.com:

:...In New Hampshire, beside the Attitash ski area, Harris is poised to undertake an 18-hole project with golf’s hottest architect, Tom Doak, the man responsible for Pacific Dunes in Bandon, Ore., and Cape Kidnappers in New Zealand...."

[Tom_Doak]

Perhaps it has not been mentioned before because we are still far apart on the terms of a deal ...

Interesting that they would put it on their web site in spite of that.  

[Martin Del Vecchio]

Here's one New Englander hoping that a deal is struck.  I would love the chance to play a Doak course without driving to Maryland to do so (I think Beechtree is the closest to me).

[Roger Tufts]

I agree; I go up to the Attitash area to ski every year, probably about 2-2.5 hours from my house and a beautiful area in the white mountains. I would be overjoyed.

[Mark Manuel]

It would certainly go a long way towards ending the best golf course in NH debate.

Just one man's opinion.

[Brad Tufts]

Well...despite a potential good addition to the scene...I believe judgment should be reserved at least for the course to be built....

What is the debate currently between?

I have played Manchester CC twice, and it seems to me that is is at the very least a half-notch above anything else I can think of, including Hanover, Portsmouth, Canterbury Woods, Sky Meadow, the Balsams (might be the closest).  I have not been to either Montcalm or Baker Hill as of yet, so I don't know about those.  I hear BH is pretty good.

[Michael Christensen]

Baker Hill is pretty good......at least in the class of Manchester CC......Bald Peak is good too, but not in the top 3.  I have not been over to Lake Winnipesaukee but the pics look like it is worthwhile.  Montcalm is another new course which looks appealing too

[Walt_Cutshall]

Manchester CC just approved a restoration plan done by Ron Forse. The plan calls for restoration of numerous bunkers that were removed (particularly from the fairways) over the years.

I would love to see a Doak course up here, but judging by Tom's response, it sounds like the odds are less than 50-50. Maybe we can create some demand from the consumer side.  

[Ray Richard]

I'd go with Manchester CC as best in NH. A great layout, it also includes an original Frank Lloyd Wright house bordering one of the fairways. Also on my top 5

1. Portsmouth-Long and grueling RTJ Sr. layout
2. Cocheco, Dover -Very quirky, Nice Phil Wogan designed back nine.
3. Bald Peak-Resort length course, should be much better after Forse upgrade this fall.
4. Mt.Washington hotel-going through Brian Silva redo-great location.

[Brad Tufts]

So my 10 (that I've played) would likely be:

Manchester
Lake Sunapee
Balsams
Portsmouth
GC of New England
Lake Winni
Hanover
Canterbury Woods
CC of NH
Mt. Washington

I have not played Bald Peak, Montcalm, Eastman, or Baker Hill.

[Walt_Cutshall]

My NH top 10 (in terms of which I enjoy playing most):

Golf Club of NE
Manchester CC
Baker Hill
Lake Winnipesaukee CC
Lake Sunapee CC
Montcalm GC
Portsmouth CC
Atkinson GC
Panorama (The Balsams)
The Shattuck

[Brad Tufts]

Can you see the "old golf" bias in my list?  

I have never had the pleasure of The Shattuck, but I will get there some day.  It's fame precedes it, although I hear it's a little more forgiving than it once was.

I played Atkinson once last year, and thought that while it wasn't bad, had several goofy holes that might have been too narrow.  The holes that weren't "goofy" per se were kind of boring, save for the two holes with two greens each.

My big surprise last year was Canterbury Woods just north of Concord.  It's a fun, affordable course just off 93.

I hope to check out at least Eastman (close to Hanover) and perhaps Montcalm this fall.

[Dan_Callahan]

Has anyone played Owl's Nest?

[Walt_Cutshall]

Owls Nest is a decent design, but usually isn't in the best condition (at least when I've played there).

Brad-I haven't played Atkinson in several years. It had two stupid holes (16 & 17?), but my understanding was that they had fixed (maybe they haven't). The 18th hole is disappointing as a finishing hole, but overall I liked the challenges presented there.

Many of the courses toward the bottom of my list would be higher if they were in better shape. I think it's tough to maintain a golf course in NH--particularly in the Mountains.

[Brad Tufts]

Dan,

Haven't played Owl's Nest, I drove into Ragged Mountain before it opened in March this year, and it looked like it could be decent.  It looked a bit like Green Mountain National over near Killington.

Walt,

It was mainly the front 9 at Atkinson that was very weird/boring...the #4-9 stretch in particular.  The back was a bit better, despite the par 5 12th being way to narrow off the tee.  If I was in a tourney there, I'd hit a 5-iron off that tee.

[Michael Christensen]

brad,

stay away from shattuck.....I had by far my worst golf experience there.....got bit by some many hand sized bugs, we left after 9 holes...sans refund

you still working with eric s over at myopia?  

[Brad Tufts]

Yeah I had lunch once at the Shattuck, I haven't given it a chance to eat mine as of yet.

I worked at Myopia from 2/2004-3/2005, so I've moved on and out of the business, but I believe Eric is still there at least for one more summer.  He's been applying all over for at a few years now, just hasn't found the right fit yet.

[Martin Del Vecchio]

It was mainly the front 9 at Atkinson that was very weird/boring...the #4-9 stretch in particular.  The back was a bit better, despite the par 5 12th being way to narrow off the tee.  If I was in a tourney there, I'd hit a 5-iron off that tee.

That's interesting, given the article I read in the Boston Globe in 2000.  I can only get snippets from the Globe archive without paying for it, but here is the gist:

Phil Wogan is hired to design the course.  He lays out the front 9.  The owner/developer says, "hell, that doesn't look too hard!" and does the back 9 himself.  The course opens, with Phil Wogan listed as architect.  Wogan publicly asks that his name be removed from the credits.

I always thought that the front 9 was a typical New England course, and the back 9 was bizarre.  The last time I played there (three years ago?), they were adding some new greens, to 15 and 16, I think, to help make them a little less odd.

By the way, the article was entitled "It's Easy To Find Plenty of Difficult Holes."

[Brad Tufts]

Hmm...maybe they switched the 9s...or something....anways...

The Front 9 i'm talking about starts far from the clubhouse, where the back 9 for me started behind the clubhouse from the parking lot.

I think 15/16 green is where there are two green they can choose from.

I just thought the front was a bit boring.  A couple good holes (2,3), then they start going back and forth, straight between stands of deep woods.  Then the back starts with a no-landing area par 4 at #10, nice par 3, then the wacky too narrow par 5.  Then they start going back and forth over some more New England ledgerock-wooded land, before coming in through a bit more rolling ground to the finish.  It's not horrible by any stretch, there are just better courses to play in so. NH and northeast MA for the same or less $$.

And Martin, when you say "bizarre" you really mean "bizzah."

[Martin Del Vecchio]

I'm not a native New Englander, so when I say "bizarre", I am pronouncing the 'r' sound.  My family cracked up when I first brought my Somerville-born bride home, and she started calling me Mahtin.  Now my sister calls me that all the time, while I have trained my wife to call me Martin.  And to pronounce the 'r' in both Starkist and starfish.

At any rate, #10 is all downhill, #11 is a nice par 3 over a chasm of some sort, and #12 is a weird par 5.  Yup, that's the back 9 that I always played.  I think the only change they made came when they moved from the temporary clubhouse to the Trump-esque clubhouse.  They made the old 9th hole the new #1.  

That hole always seemed awkward to me, with the main road all along the left side.  It seems shoe-horned in, which one wouldn't expect, given how far away it is from the clubhouse.