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Mark Bourgeois

Ross's Asheville Muni, Back Nine (Pics)
« on: August 14, 2007, 11:32:50 PM »
10th hole, a funky 288-yard par 4.  We're in the mountains now, and note that "bunker in the sky:" it's about 15 feet above the slim bowl of a fairway below!  Michael J. Fay notes this tee is the only modification from the original plans on the entire course.  It was moved to the left to accommodate a maintenance shed. (Doh!)



10 green



11th hole. Here again: doesn't this hole look a million miles long? Well, it's a 374-yard par 4!  This is the "half pipe" hole I described on another thread, included here for the sake of completeness.



11 green



12th hole, a 346-yard, par 4 Ross "up and over."



12 green: it's got to be a fallaway green with a pronounced tilt right, correct?



Nope, that's exactly backwards of reality.  Here's a view from the left side.  How can these be two pictures of the same green! Somebody clue me in on the secret of building a green like this.



13th hole, a 367-yard par 4 and another Ross NC classic elevated tee that plays to a rising fairway and elevated green.  Boy, do they need to clear some trees on this course, don't they?  When they do, this hole will be a mutant twin to its better relation across town, the 6th hole at the Grove Park Inn. (Assuming that's actually a Ross hole.)



13 approach



13 green. A spinning wedge uphill to a tucked pin on another funky green is no bargain here, no matter how short the hole plays.



14th, a boomerang 504-yard par 5.  The challenge off the tee: don't hit through the dogleg.  If you meet this challenge, you will have a go in two.



14th approach.  



Now, as you walk up to the green you look left and you see that side view of 12 green pictured above...and you look forward and see what appears to be the same green.  Aha! you think.  I've got this one figured.  Sadly, you discover belatedly this green plays nothing like 12. It falls to the right.



15th, a stern 216-yard par 3. What a challenge this hole must have been -- uh, what a challenge it remains.



15 green.  A three-tiered green and don't get caught on the wrong tier.  An agronomist would shriek at the results of a core sample taken from any of these greens, yet they do offer speed, and the slopes (not contour) are fearsome.  On this hole I honestly thought I shanked a putt(!), until I scraped it back and got the same result twice.



15 green, seen from behind, with tee in the distance.



16th, a 340-yard par 4 that could be made into a great, great shorty if: 1) the trees were cut back to reveal the green (tempt the golfer) and the fearsome slope on the right; 2) the fronting bunker was deepened to make it a true one-shot penalty.  Some would go for rebuilding the green, fine if you've got the money. I say it's plenty good right now.



16 approach



16 green



17th, a 491-yard par 5 that plays more like a par 4, and a very strong hole, possibly (probably) my very favorite on the entire course. Again, tree removal right is in order: it would make the green appear deceptively close and tempt golfers into a valley of despair possibly worse than the one on 15 (it's the same valley).



17 approach, uh, from upper rim of valley of despair on the right



17 green: another huge green with slope to scare you to the bejeezus belt.



17 green, looking back on hole



18th hole, a 222-yard drop-shot par 3 that takes us down the mountain.  I was losing daylight and had an adventure on this hole so sadly no closeups of the green.



Mark

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ross's Asheville Muni, Back Nine (Pics)
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2007, 03:08:01 AM »
Mark,
  Thanks for taking the time to share the photos and your thoughts.
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Andy Hughes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ross's Asheville Muni, Back Nine (Pics)
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2007, 02:26:19 PM »
Good stuff Mark, thanks.  To think I spent 4 years not too far from there and never even knew it existed.
"Perhaps I'm incorrect..."--P. Mucci 6/7/2007

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ross's Asheville Muni, Back Nine (Pics)
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2007, 03:35:45 PM »
Great pictures and commentary; you not only made want to play the place, you made me feel almost like I already have!
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Peter Pallotta

Re:Ross's Asheville Muni, Back Nine (Pics)
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2007, 03:42:16 PM »
Mark - thanks again.

One neither the front nine nor the back did I notice many fairway bunkers. Aesthetically, I don't miss them at all. Did you, either aesthetically or architecturally?

Thanks
Peter

Mark Bourgeois

Re:Ross's Asheville Muni, Back Nine (Pics)
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2007, 08:13:34 PM »
Peter,

Didn't miss them in the least.  It's interesting to consider the lack on both nines.  The back nine terrain does not need bunkers, but the flat front nine you'd think might.

Three thoughts there:
1. Ross knew he was building a muni and considered construction and maintenance costs.
2. He defended par from the green, using contour, size and green / greenside bunker angles and positions. These greens hold your attention not merely on approach but from the tee. On any course it helps to think your way back from the green to make proper decisions; here I think with these greens you need to pay close attention to the day's hole location as well as how it relates to green angle, bunkering, etc. Take these greens and speed them up, and all of this becomes even more significant. (I learned that on the huge, sloped, lightning-fast greens of Grove Park Inn.)
3. He found what natural features he could (stream, ridge) and incorporated them into the play of the hole.

Lack of bunkering here may be a good example of why architects should practice restraint in bunkering. It forces them to seek out what natural features they may use, no matter how subtle or small.

Mark

Peter Pallotta

Re:Ross's Asheville Muni, Back Nine (Pics)
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2007, 09:33:54 AM »
Mark - thanks.
I was hoping others would comment on your very good post. I find the idea of limiting the use/number of bunkers one of the most interesting topics of discussion and thought -- and now you've given me 3 good reasons why.  (The other main topic is minimizing maintenance practices, i.e. using less water and pesticides.)

Peter